Help from strangers while docking? A poll and my rambling musings.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

So how about we all are polite to volunteers, whatever their skill level. If help is not wanted, then thank them for offering while declining. If accepting help be pleasant and specific in instructing them what they can do - so very often problems occur because the skipper assumes that the volunteer knows what to do, or the instructions are just plain confusing or even wrong. Use clear terminology always and do not expect that a volunteer knows the specific terms from the sailing dictionary. I hate to say it but most of the time there are problems landing a boat it is either the helmsman's fault or a lack of clear instructions, and not the fault of the crew or volunteer. And regardless of fault, how about reminding ourselves that we are all fallible and be kind (and if you think you don't make mistakes then that is your greatest).

Greg

If you start out cussing out potential help before you get within 50ft of the dock, yeah, that's inappropriate.

Polite is certainly the appropriate initial interaction.

But it's time sensitive activity and if they aren't taking direction, telling them in a firm voice to stand back is quite appropriate. If they still don't step back and you see them starting to do something bad, yes, escalation can be called for.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by contrail

Not pushing on stanchions used to be considered a real no-no. I still hate to do it or see it done, but I believe the EC standard (and many of our boats are built to those standards) now mandates that stanchions can support a pretty big load....not sure what it is, but I think it is in hundreds of pounds, so, at least on modern boats, it may be an outdated fear. I will never forget seeing a young man, who wanted to go from the dock to his boat, which was rafted alongside and outboard of ours, and who wanted to go over the bows, so not to disturb us, "walk" himself up our hull (topsides) by holding onto the stanchion. Before I could stop him, he was onboard and headed over to his boat. My boat was a Leopard cat, built to conform with EC standards, and whilst I still would not do the same thing, it gave me something to think about!

It takes a lot of force to rip a stanchion completely out of the deck.

Not so much to bend or simply break the seal on the caulk.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Manners are gone. Adults acting like children who had no parents at all to teach them wrong or right.

In 1 week this winter I had a big run in with people like that.

First, a lady lets her big, unleashed dog just lift his leg and pee all over my motorcycle. When I said something, instead of apologizing, she yelled at ME, calling me closed minded.

Same week, a boat neighbor’s guest starts peeing all over my stuff and shore power cord. There a head on the boats, bathrooms at the marina office and even some porta potties nearby. But instead of using those, he pees all over my stuff.

I am like are you kidding me?

Then he tries to fight me instead of apologizing too. Walks at me yelling and getting threatening. I’m tiny. I just had a heart attack about a year ago and lost all my muscle. Not to mention on 3 different blood thinners at the time. I wasn’t about to die over it.

But wow. This is why I sail. Not to meet people. To get AWAY from people.

No harm done, but I would have preferred she asked. I guess it is also a compliment that of the selection of boats, they liked mine most.

I've had my motorcycle peed on too. Owners boyfriend apologized, though. I didn't care most of the conversation was talking him down lol. But, I think owners with off leash dogs are in general very rude for doing that. I especially hate the, "oh he's nice/loves dogs". Well, I have one that is 50/50 on his leash if he'll be friendly or defensive so thanks for putting me in this position!

The drunkard... Just wow. That's unbelievable. I stopped all my vices (including drinking) to save up for my boat as fast as possible, intending to not do it forever. But since that meant I was sober for a long time I progressed through, "I wish I could be right there with you" to "drunk people are funny" landing at "drunk people are pretty obnoxious". And that's when they're not belligerent and angry drunks (which I always hated).

Sorry about your stuff!

- AT

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Ha, us too, and I cruise as a couple. I (we) would much rather anchor than go to a dock. It's a combination of being a piss-poor docker, along with my general tendency to want to avoid urban areas.

I have had the great luck of taking basically the entire icw, Norfolk to fiesta key. Some 1,400 miles of I remember my logs correctly. Lots of people, but I always anchored out and dinghied in. The solitude was great. Now hanging around docks is great, too, especially after the solitude.

The thread may not make it seem like it, but I just like hanging around boats and people who like boats. Even if the boat doesn't sail.

I will admit that I day dream about what the great sailing areas must have been like before internal combustion. The Narragansett, Chesapeake, Pamlico, Biscayne. All with beautiful wind and not a wake in sight and no noise pollution....

- AT

[bgallinger]

I appreciate the offer of help, but if things go wrong, I like to have an exit strategy. The really surprising thing is the number of marina dockhands and "helpful" boaters who expect the bow line to be tossed first! When I toss the spring line, I will point and clearly indicate which cleat on the dock to use.

[gonesail]

obviously it depends on whether the strangers do something right and actually help with the docking procedure. even experienced dock hands can screw up.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by gonesail

obviously it depends on whether the strangers do something right and actually help with the docking procedure. even experienced dock hands can screw up.

And not always even a screw up but misunderstanding.

Example: They may know how a typical single inboard monohull handles and incorrectly assume my boat is the same. But my boat is a single outboard with directional thrust well away from the rudders.

The result is I'm busy using the way my boat reacts (no prop wash against the rudder and no significant prop walk...but directional thrust that allows me to do other things). I have everything under control but it's not what they expect, so they try to "save me".

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I also absolutely love Flemish coils and use them everywhere except a momentary tie up at a fuel dock. I use them on the boat deck as well if the excesses line is retuned to the boat.

River Otters love Flemish coils too. They use them for a toilet.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

River Otters love Flemish coils too. They use them for a toilet.

I’m sure glad the manatees don’t do the same! Lol

[longjonsilver]

The true definition of help is: "Making things harder and pretending to do a favor."

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

River Otters love Flemish coils too. They use them for a toilet.

Since have moved into thread drift...

Not crazy about Flemish coils:
- On the dock, people have a tendency to kick them off and into the water.
- On the boat, they tend to trap dirt on the deck.

I prefer to daisy chain the lose ends of dock lines:
- Assuming it's not an excessive amount of line, you can just let them hang off the side without them touching the water.
- Once you learn how to do it, takes about as much time as a flemish coil.
- Pull the tail lose and a quick yank and it all comes undone if you need to quickly switch to use the extra length.

https://www.instructables.com/Daisy-...xtension-cord/

If for some reason, there is an excessively long tail, I prefer the following option:

Compassman,Dan's: Keeping lines on your boat untangled

[rslifkin]

On the dock I tend to just coil the line next to the cleat, but not flemish it. Less surface area to collect dirt and grime that way and easier to limit coil size to keep it out of the way. On the boat side, any excess line gets coiled and hung from the rails, never left on the deck.

[flightlead404]

I recently had two docking situations go bad because of unrequested help. One, getting into a tiiiiight slip with a super narrow fairway and a crossing current where I was trying to "go around" and give it another shot where two people didn't return my bow line but instead insisted "you can make it" and left me pinned between the corner of the finger pier and by neighbor. And another one where a dock hand cleated the line where I told him to, but instead of the end of the line (midship aft spring) he cleated it super short resulting in a sudden stoppage and our aft hanging out with a following current.

In both cases the ultimate root cause was me not be EMPHATIC enough and CLEAR enough.

In the first case I should have said "hell no, I'm going around toss that line back" and in the second I should have specified "end of the line on that cleat" or even put a loop on the end and said "loop on that cleat"

My wife and I always do a detailed de-brief after every departure and arrival.

[Atcowboy]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

... In the second I should have specified "end of the line on that cleat" or even put a loop on the end and said "loop on that cleat"

My wife and I always do a detailed de-brief after every departure and arrival.

I find that asking someone to drop an eye/loop, or bight (where I keep both ends of the line on the boat) is unsatisfactory to people offering help. It's like some kind of voodoo magic that can't be understood lol.

I have quite literally had a bight of rope I was draping over a cleat removed from my hands and poorly cleated off, requiring me to undo the snarl before proceeding.

And if we are talking about dock peeves, it hurts my look balls when I see a misused cleat. Lead it fair, so you can make it around the base so you can sweat or release tension, and so the cleat hitch doesn't pinch the working line, then one cross and one half hitch. No more, no less.

Likewise, every single docking cleat on my cape dory is misplaced. They are all directly inline with a fair lead to the fair lead, meaning the line gets pinched and can't be effectively sweated or gently belayed.

I like Flemish coils. I like to do them in opposing swirls so they look like a goofy waxed mustache.

- AT

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

...The poll needs one more choice: sometimes I appreciate the help, sometimes I don't mind the help, and sometimes I politely decline. ...

Totally agree with the point.
I really appreciate and may well need help when arriving. In bad conditions, especially strong winds from anywhere but on the nose for sure. Or when arriving at a berth in a marina I've not visited before.

Getting in or out of a berth is always a moment of potential problems. Boats hate reversing at the best of times. On occasion I've had other Skippers (presumably) seeing that I'm having a problem (or am about to) from the comfort and serenity of the cockpits of their berthed boats shouting advice most vociferously at me. I'm glad that that is a rare occurrence. My hearing isn't the greatest, over my crew's voices, and with my boat's engine, with screams from a distance all I hear is noise. And I've never quite understood the willingness and entitlement that some people seem to feel in shouting advice and guidance not asked for.

Docks and boats seem to bring out both the best and worst in many people.

Just as an aside there is one marina I visited a few years back there were a number of older retired people all sitting on deck chairs overlooking the boat launching ramp. As well as snacks they were prepared with lunch too. They were sort of lined up in a row by a coffee cart and whilst waiting for my coffee I struck up conversation.

It turned out the reason they were all there was because they had such grand entertainment watching people launch and retrieve their trailered boats. It was like the prurient interest in watching car racing, (every now and then there's a crash), and they were there because every hour or so there'd be an idiot. All manner of minor accidents, arguments between owners about who's boat would come out or go in first, car/trailer parking issues.

And I do confess to standing there for a half hour or so watching too, and sure enough it was a real study in human behaviour. It was sad too though, as the several times that there was both a man and woman together attending their boat, the misogyny and abuse that the female partners were subjected to was quite awful.