Help me sort this out?

[skipmac]

Over my boating career I've done to major boat overhauls though not one quite this extensive but close. My experience.

- Doesn't matter where in the world you go, it's going to cost a lot of money to make this into a cruiser. Good quality marine ply, stainless or bronze fittings, hardware, etc cost what they cost.

- You have three things to consider: you can do the job fast, you can do the job well, you can do the job cheaply BUT you can only pick two out of three.

- Decide if you want to be a boat builder or a sailor and go sailing.

- Decide if this is a labor of love and you don't care about any of the above. If the answer is yes then jump in but be prepared for money and time.

- Be certain that this will cost way, way more than you will ever recover when you sell the boat.

[Suijin]

Sounds like it was designed as a purpose built racer. Which presents a lot of challenges for conversion to a cruiser. It might be wet, it might be twitchy, it’s almost certainly overpowered as a cruiser.

Rerigging and recutting the sails could easily top $20k alone, and the racing sails may have a short life to begin with.

As for the interior, it’s all a matter of how finished you want it. You can just go with marine grade plywood and paint and go for a simple Herreshof interior or fine cabinetry, all subject to your tastes and pocketbook.

It boils down to your appetite for a refit and for sinking money into the project which you will see only a modest return on. Having done a few refits they always cost more than you expect and take longer than you planned, even when doing most of the work yourself.

[Mithril Bham]

Talk about an emotional purchase. Of course it is a bad idea. Isn't buying any sailboat a bad idea? What is practical about buying a boat that doesn't make you money? It's a hell of a lot more practical to fly to Tahiti than to sail there.

I have been working on a boat for five years and have a few more to go. I have poured far more money into it than I will ever recover and will continue to do so. I enjoy it. That is why I do it.

If you aren't willing to do that then find a ready boat and buy it. I guarantee you that it will take you far more time and cost you a lot more money than you anticipate to complete this project.
Restoring boats is a lifestyle rather than an investment. I finally got that.

Good luck. At least you have a dream.

[ZULU40]

sounds like she would be design 39 GERONTIUS, at 42ft

FYD | 42' Cruising Sloop (Design 39)

some images

RB Sailing: Gerontius (Farr 42)

and the engine would be a Westerbeke
maybe you dont need to fill the interior with stuff?
the engine could be part of a 3 sided galley, some Pearsons were like that
Its not difficult to contemplate having the spacious freedom to design an interior in
I think your real issue is in detuning the rig so that you can sail her short handed, but what would I know ..

its better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all

[Matt Johnson]

Well, tomorrow we'll have a video out about our cost of redoing a 37' 1983 alumiunm boat. We stripped it down to bare aluminum inside and out... the engine, mast, galley stove, two winches and a bilge pump switch are the only original items on the boat (that I can remember). Refit cost not including yard storage was $46,000.

I would do it again (in a decade) as I learned so much and now have better ideas of how to improve the next one.

Matt

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Here is the situation:

There is a boat that is rumored to be Bruce Farr's boat that is approximately 44 foot. it's interior is pretty much stripped except part of the galley is still there. One of the interesting things about this boat is the engine sits near the mast. It is a cutter rig. The boat is rumored to have won the Trans Pac in its class back in the late 70's or early 80's. It has a partially open stern with a big destroyer wheel. Massive deck hatches that are heavy duty. The gear on this boat is high level racing gear ...but maybe 10 years old when it was decommissioned as a racer. I saw this boat out of the water as she was having her bottom redone. Fin with deep keel.

There is so much that could be done with this fine boat. She is solid build and quite lovely. Her old teak decks need to go bye bye. She has no interior what so ever. She can be had pretty cheaply....maybe mid 20k

What I would like to do is to turn her into a good performance cruiser if I decided to swallow the insanity pill/ divorce pill....(no my wife likes the boat also and sees her potential)

1. She currently has a zillion racing sails. All hanked on....I would want a roller furling and even possibly a furling main. Just me and my sweetie...and I am in mid 60's and my wife is skinny Minnie.

So, question one, mates....how to go about getting my mind around what it will cost to get the rigging changed? Take pictures of the boat and go to a rigger and figure out what estimates they can come up with? Go to a sail loft? Can they take racing sails and recut them/alter them to lower performance sizes and more modest expectations?
Not sure you need to change the rig. Just add a furler and have a couple sails reworked on the luff for the furler instead of hanks.
2. Since the motor is at least 15-20 foot in front of the companionway how practical is it to build a good box around it for insulation and sound?

I love the balance of this boat. You can swing the destroyer wheel 6 inches port/starboard and watch the bow move accordingly. The engine is exactly where all motors should be if you like weight out of the ends. The motor is a Westerbeake (spelling) It is absolutely out in the open and would be the sweetest place to work on filters, belts, etc....observe issues building.
Depends on the layout but should be no problem. My 44 in the avatar had the engine under the galley sink midline. Great access.
3. My wife and I like our pleasures and since this boat is a blank open page with almost nothing in it.....There is a v berth up in the bow. A very tiny bathroom...no shower. The main area has two benches. The boat is quite beamy. Behind the companion way are two large areas port and starboard that could be used for berths and storage.

I can't get my mind around what the costs would be to do the plumbing/electrical/carpentry/ and finish work. I have rebuilt three homes in the last 15 years from top to bottom. I am just now finishing up on a complete restoration of a 30 foot Sharpie. I have all the tools and none of the talent. He he....
My opinion, (I have rebuilt and done complete interiors on a few..) is if you are not willing to do it yourself, and spend years, walk away. Paying will be huge and problem prone for sure. It's the reason these racing shells come up and sit around a lot. They are not really a bargain when you spend $100k finishing them.

Would it not be smart to pack the boat with all the stuff and sail it to southeast asia or Rio Dulce and let the talented workers do all the interior with me? I have serious delusions and this boat is making me nutts.

Okay...flame suit on....flame away....try to take a deep breath and be nice. I cry easily. I feel about this boat the same as I did about Penelope Cruz when I first saw her in Jamon Jamon.... I also think Javier Bartem is very insecure. I know he is intercepting all my letters to Penelope. Okay...so that is nutts....well, that is what this boat does to me.

see above in Bold.

[Dougtiff]

I just completed converting a Ranger 37 racing boat to a cruising boat, the owner purchased her on craigs list for 10K and hired me to put the rig back together, this entailed rebuilding the mast step with G10, at this point he told me, he wanted to convert her to a Cruising boat, my rebuttal was " i know i'm shooting myself in the foot, but you should consider selling her for what ever you can get and cut your loses and i will help you find an appropriate boat". The owner thought about it and decided to go ahead and one year later the project was completed at the cost of $ 160.000 for material and labor, i won't even go into what the conversion entailed, suffice to say, the list is very long and it's say a $ 40.000 boat, so be very careful, from your description, i would say " take a pass on this one", what is your life worth at you your age, year,s of doing the conversion, verses going Cruising while you are able to, there are to many boat's out there, that will do the job, what are you after, the cruising experience or having other's comment on what a cool boat you have, don't let you ego get in the way, or maybe you really don't want to go out there, but enjoy the building experience, both are O.K., just figure out what it is. Allfernow, Doug.

[NevisDog]

I looked at this option - those ex-racers sure are budget-priced - then reality kicked in: I'm 65 and want to sail, not work on boat conversions till I drop. If I were 20 with a million bucks I'd do it, but life's too short to keep dreaming of marrying Penelope Cruz, which is just about what you're doing here. JMHO.

[Rorzech]

Don't do it ! Walk away.

[Ken Z]

my reality check.... wow.... a huge undertaking, wow a beautiful boat...a LOT of work, unless you can live with basics, i would find a cruiser and enjoy.

[Jim Cate]

Do you know what year she was designed/built, and under which of the IOR versions? Makes a big difference IMO. OUr previous boat was an IOR one-tonner, but from the very first years of that disastrous rule (1973 design 1974 build). Her hull shape, stability and scantlings were pretty normal, and despite lots of negative advice, we cruised and lived aboard her for 17 years and 86,000 blue water miles. After a major refit by a later owner, she's still cruising here in Oz. But, she started life with a fairly nice interior fitout, not an empty shell with pipe berths and a sea swing stove! RAce boats were less extreme in the early 70s.

As the rule morphed, the designs became less and less "useful" with unseamanlike dodges to improve ratings, culminating in the Fastnet debacle. I for one would not consider turning one of these designs into a cruiser, for the compromises would be very hard to remove and she would never be the forgiving boat that a cruiser needs if he is to enjoy short handed sailing.

And FWIW, I don't think the "design 39" posted above is representative of true racers like you describe. #39 is self described as a racer/cruiser, specifically a boat designed to be cruised by a mom and pop crew, but with an IOR rating that would make her a potential entrant in racing should the desire emerge.

So, consider what kind of end product you might achieve... would it be a boat that you really can happily cruise in? If so, and ONLY if so, then do the maths and figure how much she would cost you. As others keep saying, the final number will be bigger...

Good luck with the decision!

Jim

[jt11791]

My experience tells me that the racing sails won't be worth much to you. A few things to consider:

Sails, particularly laminates, have a shelf life. How old are these things? If more than 15 years, they are junk.

A racing headsail will need to be altered to fit a furler. It may have battens that won't work on a furler. It won't have a sun guard. After you add all this, the sail will fall apart in a few seasons (maybe one) anyway.

Having a "zillion" sails doesn't help you. Cruisers don't do the 3am #1 to #3 peel, they put one sail on the furler and it stays there. Once you install a furler, you can't use your hanked on sails. They'll all need to be altered for the furler, not worth it. Money is better spent buying one new sail that fits your needs.

If you are lucky there will be one mainsail with some life left. There might a couple of spinnakers with some life, but they'll be big symmetricals that you'll need a crew to use. If they are in good shape, you might be able to sell them, but even then not for big bucks.

[CatboatWilly]

We had a beautiful 40 foot sloop designed by Britton Chance that was a one designed racer. She was full a racing boat with the unusual design feature of a hydraulic operated dagger board. The the massive board could be lowered through a slot or trunk that sat just before the mast - to a full depth of eight feet. The draft was from 3.5 feet to eight feet and also featured a kick up rudder. If you can picture a 40 foot laser you'll have a very close idea as to what this design looks like.
We raced her to Bermuda twice doing very well and earning some hardware.
This inside was spartan and race equipped.
As the racing hormone disappeared from my life I decided to make her in to a cruiser. Very big mistake in terms of dollars !
We wound up putting a new Westerbroke diesel in her three years ago.
Now for the moral of this story.
We put her on the market several months ago at a very attractive price.
A solid race boat with a new engine, 10 sails, more winches than you could imagine and as dry as bone. Not one taker ! And paying a yard fee of $300 a month storage
So.....lowered the price to $15 K. Still no takers and seriously considering selling her off for parts. We tried to give it away and take the tax write off...Still could not interest any organization in accepting this gem with her 60 foot mast.

You want a cruising boat............Buy an old cruising boat and fix that up. Do not try to make a hammer in to a screwdriver ! Race boats are designed for a specific purpose and it's not comfort.
Fixing her up....It's more expense than you thought possible.
Good luck with your decision.

[skipmac]

Over my boating career I've done to major boat overhauls though not one quite this extensive but close. My experience.

- Doesn't matter where in the world you go, it's going to cost a lot of money to make this into a cruiser. Good quality marine ply, stainless or bronze fittings, hardware, etc cost what they cost.

- You have three things to consider: you can do the job fast, you can do the job well, you can do the job cheaply BUT you can only pick two out of three.

- Decide if you want to be a boat builder or a sailor and go sailing.

- Decide if this is a labor of love and you don't care about any of the above. If the answer is yes then jump in but be prepared for money and time.

- Be certain that this will cost way, way more than you will ever recover when you sell the boat.

[Sailorbob8599]

Quote: "I can't get my mind around what the costs would be to do the plumbing/electrical/carpentry/ and finish work. I have rebuilt three homes in the last 15 years from top to bottom. I am just now finishing up on a complete restoration of a 30 foot Sharpie. I have all the tools and none of the talent. He he...."

Sounds like you're talking about almost a bare hull ... therefor, it will cost you about the price of building a new boat ... plus.