Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I’m not difficult to get along with, I already have five people lined up for next May. Blue collar, unpretentious, hard working appreciative people... like ourselves. Two registered nurses, a diesel mechanic/electrician, hardwood flooring contractor and a sculptor, all with plenty of sailing experience. No yacht club layabouts, no shortage of people who want to join us.

That is all well and good - they all have sailing resumes, and most have some kind of skill set. Now, are these people you have sailed with recently, or are you throwing the dice 5 more times? I think I am beginning to understand why you draw a dud every so often.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by argonauta1

Incidentally, not sure what is meant by "generator battery". Yacht batteries are normally house or engine start.

My boat has a separate starter battery for the genset.

[rgranger]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I am sorry for all that and hope the future is brighter. Of the many experiences "reconnecting" or "catching up" in my own life and those I observe among people around me, it is rare for things to turn out well.

....

Amen Brother. I had a similar emotional ride when I reconnected with an old friend and his wife for a Boundary Water's (out back) canoe trip in Northern Minnesota.

They came unprepared, did not pack any food, did not help cut fire wood or cook... we cut the trip short by four days and bailed.

[B310Racer]

And, to add to the signed contract, a cash deposit!

[senormechanico]

It seems the common thread here is that most people think being invited on a boating trip that as guests, they have absolutely NO responsibilities.
All they need to do is sit back and be served and coddled.


Yuck.

[boatpoker]

You guys definitely need some new friends or at least a better definition of same. We've had many friends cruise with us over the last 25yrs and never once had to ask for a contribution or write a contract. Equitable sharing of expenses and work were just naturally assumed and given freely by our guests and sometimes refused depending on circumstances. Given what I read on this thread, we must have some pretty special friends.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken

Gee, glad we didn’t make it onto your list. [emoji6]

You have nothing to worry about.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by argonauta1

Other cruisers warned us never to take guests blue water who had never been there. In so doing (Fiji to Vanuatu) we too had a similar experience. We never did it again. Incidentally, not sure what is meant by "generator battery". Yacht batteries are normally house or engine start.

Our house bank is 24v, so the engine start batteries are 12v and the generator has it’s own single 12v start battery.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by dominig

Your sorry is sad, but welcoming guest on board fortunately can also work fine.I sailed this summer for 3 months in Northern Scotland with crew taken from French and English and I used the same strategy that with close friends coming on boards.
My model is to create a clear engagement written document.



1) state the obvious
----------------------------
I am clear that crew will have to share the fun and the shores on board. No one is a full time guest.
I remember them that the sea can be tough and they need to be fit and equipped (list provided)
Finally, I make very clear that if for any reason, I feel that they are not fit or compatible for the trip, I will disembark them at he first next stop.


2) Define the financial model
-----------------------------------------
I states what will be shared and what will not. I always add €10/day/head to participate to small wear and tear of the boat standard item. I provide an estimation of the cost per day for food and marina.
Some people when coming on a boat which cost as much as a house, feel that the owner has deep pocket. I make clear that they understand that I spent all my saving on the boat and that my pockets are not deeper than theirs.


3) Test when possible
--------------------------------
When possible I have gone out for a few days before the big trip but to be honest that has not make any serious differences. One the obvious and the financial system are cleared, I never had any serious issue. In fact I have always kept my crew for the pre defined period.


I pass a (quick and poor) translation my document sent for info.



--------------- preparation email -------------------
1) Mandatory equipment
--------------------------------

a) Self-inflating lifejacket with lanyard loop and up to date. (I have vests on board that will serve as a backup, but for dark stories of insurance, I ask that you have yours on boarding.) I provided the lifelines.

b) Wellies and Oilies

Rubber wellies are less comfortable than breathable but much cheaper and much more waterproof. Prefer a model with a good sole and where you can put thick socks (or two pairs). You need a complete oilies of good quality.
Here again the good old Fisherman provider GuyCotten is the most waterproof but make you sweat a lot. My advice, choose waterproof trousers overalls of good quality (a new top of range, at Tribord or Aigle can do but it will not be very waterproof for long on the bottom where the pressure of the water when seating is chalanging / unmanageable for Gortex type tissue). A lot of colleagues who sail a lot, have returned to Cotten's yellow fisherman's overalls. There is little perspiration of the legs at sea. For the top, I recommend a breathable waterproof jacket. The quality of the jacket is less critical. It shall NOT have fleece inside because it is impossible to dry quickly. The real sea jackets, have wrists that tighten or neoprene and a large collar and very visible color hood. Choose a very bright color for your safety like yellow or red. Dark colors are to be avoided.

c) lamps and knife You need a flashlight or headlamp and a knife. You will also need a lamp or a fluorescent stick in your lifejacket (I recommend the stick). Any knife will do the trick. I like the Opinel with its super integrated whistle.
d) gloves You will need a pair of gloves for sail maneuvers and landing. Garden or construction gloves can do. You have to take them just tight enough because once wet they distend. We cut the tip of the thumb and forefinger (or all the fingers, but I like less) .. The sailing gloves are nice and very flexible, but they will be dead in a few weeks. A pair of warm gloves that do not fear water (ski type). A scarf, scarf or balaclava for cool nights, can be nice.
2) your business
-------------------

A boat not being a hotel room come with a bag and not with a suitcase. I have waterproof bags on board for shopping with the tender It is therefore not essential for you to have one. Focus on clothes that dry quickly, can be layered together and washed as a common machine. I advise :
- Damar or technical T-shirt (the first is cheaper and has an antique charm). 2 at the minimum, 3 to do well. it must descend low on your back, and be just to the body.
- fleece sweater 1 thin and 1 thicker. Be careful that they cover their backs and that they are not loose.
- fleece jacket to put in more before the oilie
- long underpants in fleece (to put under the oilie
- Sports tights (under pants or under pants in the evening).
- underwear and socks for 7 days min (then we will wash).
- trousers for dry days. Jeans are very cold with moisture. The working trousers of roofers, electricians, ... working in Tergal are perfect.
- Deck or Sneakers shoes (no black sole)
- pairs of sandals for showers and arrivals on beaches by tender
- pairs of shoes to walk a little more (island tour, village visit, ....)
- dress a little more classy (yacht club, pub, local party ...) It is unlikely that the Queen invites us, we can forget the high heels and pearl necklaces, although for the pub it would be very classy . - NO ring is worn while sailing.
- pajamas (hot is better).
- sunglasses, cap or better hat (which resists the wind).
- sleeping bag and meat bag (I have extra blankets if needed).
- pillowcases, I provided the pillows.
- towels and washcloths (there is no shower on board) but a sink and a bidet.
- swimsuit (preferably heated).
- your passport or identity card, driving license (if you want to rent a car one day). European Health Insurance Card (EHIC), not essential but simplifying in case of problems.


3) Finance.
----------------

There is a charge of €10 per head per day for sharing wear and tear on the boat.

We will work on the model of a boat wallet where the costs are shared between those on board. Is paid from the boat wallet:
- food, drinks, bars, restaurants, ...
- fuel (2l / h engine and 0.5 / h of heating
- marina, canals, ...

Does not come from the boat wallet:
- your transfer to take or leave the boat (train, taxi, bus, hotel)
- your personal purchases, gifts, greed (for me a serious job), magazines, books, ...
- travel insurance, banks or visa charges, ...
- parts of the boat that would break (it's for me). By cons parts broken after non-compliance with the instructions will be charged

The insurance when you are on the boat is paid by me and included in the 10 €. By cons, it does not cover you outside the boat (not really a problem as long as we are in European Community).
I provide internet on board for emails.

Excellent! Many thanks for your contribution.

Ken

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by ClubClaudia

That breaks my heart for you and your wife! It is a sad day when friends disappoint us. We just bought our boat up in Slovenia in June and have had a fabulous time wandering South to Corfu with 18 guests along the way who have been delightful and helpful. We were hoping to catch up with you along the way this summer in the Adriatic, but that just leaves us something to look forward to next spring! Working now to get the MairMade cleaned up and put away until April...Texas is calling us home!

We look forward to meeting up with you in 2019, please keep in touch.

Ken

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

That is all well and good - they all have sailing resumes, and most have some kind of skill set. Now, are these people you have sailed with recently, or are you throwing the dice 5 more times? I think I am beginning to understand why you draw a dud every so often.

I’ve sailed with each of them many times offshore. Guess again.

[Silverbullet]

Never travel out of home port even into Intl waters unless you have previously asked for a copy of your passenger's passport IN ADVANCE. You are the Capn and you are not only in charge you are responsible!

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

You guys definitely need some new friends or at least a better definition of same. We've had many friends cruise with us over the last 25yrs and never once had to ask for a contribution or write a contract. Equitable sharing of expenses and work were just naturally assumed and given freely by our guests and sometimes refused depending on circumstances. Given what I read on this thread, we must have some pretty special friends.

We’ve only had three duds over the past eight years who wouldn’t share expenses and one sex offender with passport issues.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Silverbullet

Never travel out of home port even into Intl waters unless you have previously asked for a copy of your passenger's passport IN ADVANCE. You are the Capn and you are not only in charge you are responsible!

You must have missed it, the sex offender’s passport was a perfectly normal US passport when we departed for Montenegro, nothing out of the ordinary.

Interpol confiscated it in Montenegro, then he didn’t have a passport until three days later when the US embassy in Croatia provided a new one with the stamp stating he’d been convicted of an assault aginst a minor.

So... please explain how a captain can possibly know something like this about a guest when everything appears normal right up until Interpol confiscates a passport without giving a reason for doing so?

[fxykty]

I’m particularly interested in those who invite friends/guests on board and ask or expect them to pay for boat expenses such as fuel? Or in the case of dominig, who charges out marina costs, maintenance and a per diem. Really?

That’s starting to sound like a charter rather than inviting friends or guests to join you on a cruise that you would be doing anyway. In the former case, sharing all operating expenses sounds reasonable, but for the latter case I don’t understand why you would charge anything other than possibly some of the provisioning.

As for helping out, unless you are asking for passage crew, there is no difference between inviting people into your home and onto your boat. Help in the kitchen and contributions to the provisioning are joyfully welcomed, but not expected. And those who want to be waited on don’t get invited back. And help running the house (chopping firewood, fixing a slow drain) should not be required nor even expected of guests. Same for a boat.