Horrible Guests, Terrible Crew

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by CMO Tashina

Not sure what you could have done to avoid the sex offender guest but with respect to the first two, perhaps a clear understanding of the roles you expected them to assume and the financial contributions you expected them to make, including your disinterest in eating or paying for costly meals out. It seems like you had the best intentions going into this but were hesitant to really make sure there would be a good fit with these guests. Don't be discouraged, simply be more up front with your needs and expectations and make sure the intended guests agree to them.

Points well taken. Thanks

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Any guests we have had on board have always been extraordinarily generous, but few have offered to do the work of crew (with the exception of occasional help in the galley) and none have offered to specifically pay for items such as fuel, nor would I expect or wish this to occur.

I agree that volunteer crew are a completely different issue, but Ken described all three of his visitors as “friends” and “guests”, not “crew”. I think if he expected costs and work to be shared this should have been made very clear beforehand.

SWL

It depends of course on the relationship and situation.


When I'm a guest on friends' boats, I will certainly pitch in for a full share of all the work, including cleaning the boat and fixing things. I really enjoy doing this on other people's boats, by the way. Those of my friends who are sailors generally do the same; some of them even ask specifically for a couple of days in port to spend a couple of communal work days doing different projects -- those are nice friends! The non-sailors are not expected to do anything -- I have invited them on board specifically to entertain them and give them a taste of sailing, and I enjoy spoiling them.


I don't expect friends or family to pay for anything, but they often -- usually probably -- buy groceries and/or meals out, and sometimes pay for berthing.


When I'm a guest on friends' boats, I try to pay for some things, like all the groceries for example, unless I've been invited with a purpose of helping the friend move the boat or something. Sometimes I try to pay for things and get refused; likewise I don't always accept participation in expenses from my friends or family, depending on the situation.


I think it's always good form when you're a guest on someone else's boat, to bring a bottle (or two), and take the owner out for a nice meal on shore. That's pretty universal I think, even among close friends.



But this is all down to what kind of relationship and the situation. It also makes a difference who is older and/or wealthier.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by CMO Tashina

Not sure what you could have done to avoid the sex offender guest but with respect to the first two, perhaps a clear understanding of the roles you expected them to assume and the financial contributions you expected them to make, including your disinterest in eating or paying for costly meals out. It seems like you had the best intentions going into this but were hesitant to really make sure there would be a good fit with these guests. Don't be discouraged, simply be more up front with your needs and expectations and make sure the intended guests agree to them.

Simple, common sense response +1

[S/V Alchemy]

I would further point out that if I have family aboard, I don't expect them to pay, as they are guests. But I wouldn't mind if they offered. I guess it comes down to knowing their expectations...although if they also owned boats, those expectations should be known in advance.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

Any guests we have had on board have always been extraordinarily generous, but few have offered to do the work of crew (with the exception of occasional help in the galley) and none have offered to specifically pay for items such as fuel, nor would I expect or wish this to occur.

I agree that volunteer crew are a completely different issue, but Ken described all three of his visitors as “friends” and “guests”, not “crew”. I think if he expected costs and work to be shared this should have been made very clear beforehand.

SWL

We actually never asked for compensation for fuel or marinas, we just accepted the fact they didn’t intend to contribute, BUT... it was only after we received an actual bill from the couple for money they felt We owed THEM that I became annoyed about the whole experience. The bill was for foreign currency transaction fees on their credit cards and for booze they’d purchased for their personal consumption that they had left behind. They itemized every cent.

Just try to imagine opening your house up and inviting your friends over for two weeks, then getting a bill after they leave for credit card expenses they incured while at your house and for the bottle of wine they brought along for dinner.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

If you have issues with your friends over who pays for what at dinner, then you need different friends.

That's a bit harsh. I have tons of friends with whom I differ about economic matters. I just make sure we just eat at places like Wendy's and avoid Chez Luigi's. Of course that revolves around knowing their proclivities in the first place.

[Macblaze]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

...and for booze they purchased for their personal consuption that they had left behind. They itemized every cent.

Huh, I think I know these guys

[KP44]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

When I hear stories like this, I'm glad we have a small boat.

One of the disadvantages of having a larger boat. But, as the skipper, I have learned how to say, "No."

[Mithril Bham]

Your pain brought back memories that I laugh at now but didn't at the time. My situation was different in that I was paid but I had the opportunity to observe the groups I hosted which were primarily two couples sharing expenses.
What surprised me most is that among hundreds of cruises there were only four disasters and they were all caused by one person. There was also a divorce but that was with one of our captains.
I learned a few things:
Throwing all the receipts in a box and splitting them at the end doesn't often work.
Drinkers and non drinkers together usually ends badly.
Duties & costs should be outlined and agreed upon prior to departure.
Being on a boat is not the same as going out to dinner with friends.
Separate checks.
Like running aground. There are those who have and those who will.

[Jdeuel]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

we received an actual bill from the couple for money they felt We owed THEM that I became angry about the whole experience. The bill was for foreign currency transaction fees on their credit cards and for booze they’d purchased for their personal consumption that they had left behind. They itemized every cent.

I think that was just the final F-you parting shot from those folks. In the words of George Jefferson, "Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!"

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We actually never asked for compensation for fuel or marinas, we just accepted the fact they didn’t intend to contribute, BUT... it was only after we received an actual bill from the couple for money they felt We owed THEM that I became annoyed about the whole experience. The bill was for foreign currency transaction fees on their credit cards and for booze they’d purchased for their personal consumption that they had left behind. They itemized every cent.

Just try to imagine opening your house up and inviting your friends over for two weeks, then getting a bill after they leave for credit card expenses they incured while at your house and for the bottle of wine they brought along for dinner.

I agree. New friends time!

[Checkswrecks]

Ken -

As my mother-in-law keeps saying "People are different." Of course, she really means different than her. (She's a great lady who I respect a lot.)

Seriously, I've spent a life traveling the world with groups for work where we are under a lot of pressure for up to weeks at a time and occasionally travel with others for pleasure. I find the entire key to traveling partners is the same as marriage.

Communication.

Remember that frustration is when your reality and expectations differ. Before we tackle a project for work, we talk a lot about who is going to be responsible for what and set up rotations for long term events. We also make it clear before we go into a restaurant about whether we are splitting the check or not. Talking before arrival makes clear who is going to pay for somebody trying to order a bottle of expensive wine. While the majority of folks are great and wouldn't need to discuss things, our work group has had free-loaders and occasionally still does, but this shuts the door before they can start. When they are not part of the group, we still verbalize what we are going to do and things go smoother because there are fewer surprises. Since you are hosting, it's up to you to lead.

For the personal trips, mildly checking Facebook and other media for what somebody posts is pretty normal in today's world. It's just another type of communication about who we are. With the third guest, you may not have picked up that he had a criminal record, but I'll bet just seeing photos would have been ringing little caution bells in the back of your head. It sounds like you normally are able to filter out the problem people even without the social media, so FB and such are just additional tools for relations. I'm always watching for red or yellow flags in what others post online or even what they put in their emails. I'm not saying they are right or wrong and definitely support them in having their own point of view. But while they may be fun to be with for an hour I sure as heck would not want to be stuck on a boat with a lot of those people who raise red flags.

Regards

[Tornadosailing]

I've done more than a few week long trips with friends, both on a charter boat, and now on my boat. Never had any problems like what were described here. But I also make sure everyone is on the same page. I don't pay for anything they want to do ashore, ever. I also have everyone submit a recipe that they'll be cooking. 6 people on the boat, and a week long trip means everyone gets a night to make dinner and do the dishes. I just need the ingredients for when I provision. Everyone seems to enjoy showing off their skills in the galley making their favorite dish. Cuts way back on the excess groceries too.

I also make very clear what my expectations are for crew work, which are admittedly minimal. But they all know they have to pitch in with fenders and anchor duty.

When I bought my boat and needed delivery help, that was different. I put together a crew of friends from the lake, and I paid for pretty much everything. Air fare, provisions, fuel, dockage, you name it. But that was my expectation going in. Still came out cheaper than a delivery captain. I also put together a cooking and watch schedule. There was a little negotiation on the watch schedule so everyone got the watch they wanted, or close to it, but there was never a question about who was on watch and when once it was set.

[passthetuna]

There's a whole lot going on here. Some self inflicted. I mail my boat repair bills to anyone who so much as looks at my boat.

[deCarabas]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Another reason facebook is...[insert your own phrase here]

super useful for staying in touch with friends and family over seas?