How Do You Like Being Overtaken by a Power Boat ?

[capn_billl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway
That's not what it says. It says you shall not impede "the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

Sorry, that doesn't mean your vessel.

Agreed. They are talking about SHIPS underway, not marina entrances.
__________________

Uh I disagree, if the boats could operate outside the channel them either one could leave the channel at any time. The fact that the channel is bouyed and marked indicates that operation outside the channel could put either boat onto shoaling spoil banks, or pilings.

If the channel was a wide one there would be plenty of room for the sailboat to tack and the power boat to go well around him.

Regardless the sailboat had the choice to tack in front or behind the power boat obviously moving, (or capable of moving) at a much higher speed.
In any case RULE 1 is DO NOT steer into a collision, or maneuver in such a way to make a collision more likely. Cutting off another vessel going faster than you, clearly falls into this catagory. Stating that unless you are a 800ft container ship, "I don't have to follow COLREGS", is a disingenius statement at best.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway
That's not what it says. It says you shall not impede "the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

Sorry, that doesn't mean your vessel.

Agreed. They are talking about SHIPS underway, not marina entrances.
__________________

Uh I disagree, if the boats could operate outside the channel them either one could leave the channel at any time. The fact that the channel is bouyed and marked indicates that operation outside the channel could put either boat onto shoaling spoil banks, or pilings.

If the channel was a wide one there would be plenty of room for the sailboat to tack and the power boat to go well around him.

Regardless the sailboat had the choice to tack in front or behind the power boat obviously moving, (or capable of moving) at a much higher speed.
In any case RULE 1 is DO NOT steer into a collision, or maneuver in such a way to make a collision more likely. Cutting off another vessel going faster than you, clearly falls into this catagory. Stating that unless you are a 800ft container ship, "I don't have to follow COLREGS", is a disingenius statement at best.

Tacking isn't steering into a vessel or cutting off a vessel going faster then you. It is maintaining your course when being overtaken. I don't think there's any rule that says anyone can cut some else off but there are rules governing over taking another vessel.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by hummingway

Tacking isn't steering into a vessel or cutting off a vessel going faster then you. It is maintaining your course when being overtaken. I don't think there's any rule that says anyone can cut some else off but there are rules governing over taking another vessel.

Actually; your course is the number under the dot on your compass, If that number is changing then you are changing course. You need to check your intended passage, everytime you move the tiller.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Actually; your course is the number under the dot on your compass, If that number is changing then you are changing course. You need to check your intended passage, everytime you move the tiller.

Right, when you actually change tack that occurs but when you're on a tack it doesn't.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Agreed. They are talking about SHIPS underway, not marina entrances.

Show me in the rules where it says that? While that's a good perspective to have...even small vessels are required to comly even in a marina channel...at least in the US ....just read any states safe boating manual

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by hummingway

Really that's my point. If the channel is big enough that I can tack in it, it's also big enough that the usual rules apply for smaller craft. A power boat shouldn't expect that they won't have to make some allowance for the restriction being under sail puts on a boat.

as I said...many descriptions can be seen two different ways in a forum...we probably agree in the real life situation...so trying to discuss many of these points becomes difficult without darn near a picture...

but there are situations where often sailors only think they are the stand on vessel....no vessel should just assume that no matter what status your vessel is. As the rules suggest, ALL vessels should take action early to prevent even getting into a collision scenario (which includes dropping sail and starting your engine if you can so you don't push the envelope in confined areas/channels unless you are willing to just be one of the guys and be reasonable)...if push came to shove in a maritime hearing I bet many sailors would have their eyes opened....heck most are suprised in my boating safety class when I show them the actual rules (not some restaurant placemat version so many like to quote...)

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by psneeld

as I said...many descriptions can be seen two different ways in a forum...we probably agree in the real life situation...so trying to discuss many of these points becomes difficult without darn near a picture...

but there are situations where often sailors only think they are the stand on vessel....no vessel should just assume that no matter what status your vessel is. As the rules suggest, ALL vessels should take action early to prevent even getting into a collision scenario (which includes dropping sail and starting your engine if you can so you don't push the envelope in confined areas/channels unless you are willing to just be one of the guys and be reasonable)...if push came to shove in a maritime hearing I bet many sailors would have their eyes opened....heck most are suprised in my boating safety class when I show them the actual rules (not some restaurant placemat version so many like to quote...)

This is true and clear and early action is the only sensible course including using a motor when it becomes a safety issue, however, a motor vessel about shouldn't presume that a sailboat will or can start it's engines.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by hummingway

This is true and clear and early action is the only sensible course including using a motor when it becomes a safety issue, however, a motor vessel about shouldn't presume that a sailboat will or can start it's engines.

Not saying that...just that a sailor (which I have been for a great number of years) should realize that sailing in tight spots may show what a total "a**" he or she is if they decide that everyone else should suffer due to their whim or ego..

And before you even go there...I was one too for awhile...and have lived long enough and now wise enough to see that kind of personaly right here in CF and elsewhere.

[forsailbyowner]

While anchored in calabash river I witnessed a shrimp boat that had a real talented and professional captain. He throttled down to idle speed just long enough to have his wake pass around us with hardly rocking us at all. Hats off. The other shrimpers just blasted by and rocked us good. No problem. Little motion dont bother me.

[tandem tantrum]

We got overtaken and waked in a shallow canal by two power boats one behind the other. They made it difficult to turn into the wake of the first one as the second one was right there. The funny thing was that if they had slowed down then they would not missed there turn and not have to double back.

[capn_billl]

Originally Posted by hummingway

Really that's my point. If the channel is big enough that I can tack in it, it's also big enough that the usual rules apply for smaller craft. A power boat shouldn't expect that they won't have to make some allowance for the restriction being under sail puts on a boat.

If the channel was wide enough to tack, and still allow two way traffic there would be no problem.

If the channel is only wide enough, for the sailboat to use the entire channel, IE tacking buoy to buoy, then the channel isn't wide enough to ignore COLREGS.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by forsailbyowner

While anchored in calabash river I witnessed a shrimp boat that had a real talented and professional captain. He throttled down to idle speed just long enough to have his wake pass around us with hardly rocking us at all. Hats off. The other shrimpers just blasted by and rocked us good. No problem. Little motion dont bother me.

That's how I can tell if I'm going to have an issue. If I hear a boat throttling waaay back (particularly in a channel that might already be sloppy) before it passes my stern, I'll give a tip of the lid to the skipper.

Unfortunately, that is less common than I would like.

[markpierce]

In most of my encounters with sailboats, the issue is academic because they are motoring.





I will even slow down for anchored fishing boats, but not here where the Bay is open (sans nearby boats), and I'm at hull/max speed here.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Not true...show me in the rules where a tug and barge are anything less than just another power vessel...why WOULD they show RAM lights/shapes when they ARE RAM and not just towing lights work?

I guess the last 10 years being an assistance tower and towing barges I've been screwing up...along with most of the community I work with.

There are sometimes a wake is necessary...even when near a "sailboat anchorage"...granted not by some yahoo powerboater...but many times in the same incorrect case you make about tugs and barges...sometimes pushing them through an area close to an anchorage....you better be ready for a pretty sizeable wake.

Sorry, but I'm not going to go through the regs for you. However, I've taken several safe boating courses, including one taught by the Coast Guard Auxiliary, and that's what they say. According to law they are NOT "just another motorized vessel." Neither are working fishing boats, tankers, or cruise ships. It all comes down to avoiding collisions. Those bigger vessels, along with boats with barges under tow, have markedly reduced maneuverability.

People around here all turn their engines on when they cross the shipping channels so they can get out of the way smartly if they have misjudged the speed of one of those very large vessels.

My dad used to run the day to day operations of a tugboat company. He was well aware of the difficulties tugs pulling or pushing barges faced. They could take out a bridge. It isn't just about boat vs. boat.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Quote:
Originally Posted by hummingway
That's not what it says. It says you shall not impede "the passage of a vessel that can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway."

Sorry, that doesn't mean your vessel.

Agreed. They are talking about SHIPS underway, not marina entrances.
__________________

Uh I disagree, if the boats could operate outside the channel them either one could leave the channel at any time. The fact that the channel is bouyed and marked indicates that operation outside the channel could put either boat onto shoaling spoil banks, or pilings.

If the channel was a wide one there would be plenty of room for the sailboat to tack and the power boat to go well around him.

Regardless the sailboat had the choice to tack in front or behind the power boat obviously moving, (or capable of moving) at a much higher speed.
In any case RULE 1 is DO NOT steer into a collision, or maneuver in such a way to make a collision more likely. Cutting off another vessel going faster than you, clearly falls into this catagory. Stating that unless you are a 800ft container ship, "I don't have to follow COLREGS", is a disingenius statement at best.

Actually, sailboats under such circumstances don't have nearly as much choice as you think about when to tack. Out on the open ocean you have choices. Inside a channel, not so much. I just don't understand why you can't grasp this. Taking is not "cutting off another vessel." The onus is on the OVERTAKING vessel to give way to the vessel being overtaken.

In addition, the onus is on the MOTORIZED vessel to yield to a vessel under sail.

You can't just hang it all on one rule and ignore all the other ones. If that sailboat is pointed toward the outer edge of the channel, you can be sure it's going to have to tack or risk drifting out of the channel and running aground.

You, as the overtaking vessel, have a legal (not to mention moral) obligation to back off the throttle for a couple of moments, and pass the sailboat after it has tacked.

I don't see why it's such a big deal. We've already established that the crew wasn't really lounging around drinking cocktails and eating "appys."