How many of the boat's systems can you put through a laptop?

[Joe Saylor]

Originally Posted by Pizzazz

Regarding computing power, there is no need to go high end. I am running all of the above on a $99, atom based, Windows 10 tablet - no issues. You can have multiple tablets for backup or to install in different places. The only thing you need is to make sure it supports OpenGL - most of the Windows 10 tablets do.

Regarding multiple displays vs. a single one and the information overload - it is very personal. Some people are proud of a busy navigational desk with 10 different displays, others prefer a clean look. You can customize the display as much as you want in OpenCPN.

Typically, you only need to present the most relevant info. For example, depth is interesting in shallow waters but then you are typically hand steering. So you can put the depth display on the autopilot for example.

Radar is much more useful if overlayed on the chart but people dislike it because it gets busy or the colors are messed up. Just take the time to adjust the detail and the colors - again much easier on a PC than a dedicated chartplotter.

Another one is gauges. I really like the systems where you have one gauge and a rotary switch to cycle through the various tanks. Neat. Look at the cars for example. Older cars will have many gauges while newer cars have only one or two, the rest is out of bound switches. This movement is driven by simplicity. The more people started to drive (and the more people start sailing), the more you move away from the geeks and simplicity is key. My kids cannot easily comprehend a busy raster chart but a well configured vector chart with the right colors allows them to steer the boat quite well.

You must be very challenged on this stuff operating out of a marina berth in marina del ray on a hunter 31...fer ****s sake man.

[settlednomad]

Originally Posted by David M

Nobeltec, although expensive is very user friendly and the tech support is excellent. It also has some very advanced features not found in a lot of chart software. Sometimes expensive and user friendly is much better than free and not so user friendly.

Nobeltec TimeZero Professional

Thanks, David, I'll take a look at this. I guess I am someone that would rather pay a little extra for something just to have the ease of use!

[john61ct]

Google just showed me this ad

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075VTD2W6

Didn't know they were sold ready to go!

[settlednomad]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Google just showed me this ad

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B075VTD2W6

Didn't know they were sold ready to go!

I have just been on Amazon looking at the range. Wow! I have been a Mac user for over 10 years and have had very little contact with anything 'Windows' in that time. But I must admit, those little machines look rather impressive. Technology changes very quickly these days!

[john61ct]

ASUS has a similar line too.

[hellosailor]

John-
From the URL you posted:
"32 GB of Intel Optane memory - a new technology from Intel that "

See? That's why I saw upgrading just doesn't pay, overall. Even the memory types keep on changing. If you have a computer for two years, odds are that something about it will beome hidebound and upgrading will be a waste.

Pizzazz-
How much horsepower you need depends on whether you have the patience to use a plow horse for anything but plowing. I find that there's never a convenient time to walk away from the computer and let it do an in-depth malware scan, and I'll often have two of those (different products) running at the same time. That's two CPU cores written off. Slow ship systems should be able to take a third, and if I'm using nav software, I'd want at least a fourth one for that.

But that's just me. Some folks are content to never do the intensive scans, and sometimes you can ignore the charts (and perhaps AIS and radar as well) while you're just piloting, or crossing empty places. But once you've gone a a system that can just shrug off intense loads, you may find that going back to a slower one leaves you conciously wondering why it is so slow. Or worse, unstable. (Heck, I've seen *one* email, from a vendor who stupidly linked 24 images to a dog slow server, kill an email client for nearly two minutes.)

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Pizzazz-
How much horsepower you need depends on whether you have the patience to use a plow horse for anything but plowing. I find that there's never a convenient time to walk away from the computer and let it do an in-depth malware scan, and I'll often have two of those (different products) running at the same time. That's two CPU cores written off. Slow ship systems should be able to take a third, and if I'm using nav software, I'd want at least a fourth one for that.

Frequently scanning a dedicated ship computer for malware is not optimal.

In the beginning I used my main laptop to do boat work and navigation - there are multiple issues with this. You need to adjust to sound levels, brightness schemes, watch out what you are downloading, constantly enable/disable firewalls for the radar plugins, and finally damaging an expensive laptop by just tripping over it or getting it wet.

A dedicated cheap tablet has many benefits. Once you set it up, it does not need to be connected to the internet except for mail/grib/SSB mail. You can disable the malware checking and firewall as the threat is not there. You can then water proof the tablet by injecting silicone in most of the openings. While you are at it, make a second tablet with the same settings for a hot backup. Keep the tablets dedicated, do the other work on a regular laptop that you stow when sailing.

[hellosailor]

If it is truly air-gapped, never used for email or web access, and any time that "new" software upgrades are installed they are scanned as well, sure, there's no need for intense scanning. But all it takes is plugging in a USB stick with new charts on it, and there you go, the system needs to be scanned again. Even if it stays air gapped and clean, "new" malware is often undetected for months after it was written and distributed, so it still pays to check from time to time.

Injecting silicone can be problematic. Bear in mind you need the non-acidic kind, as the acid vapors can upset circuits. Better to tape over the openings, so you can peel the tape if you need access to them again. Again, horses for courses. For the average user, who will not be dedicating lots of different devices?

[NahanniV]

I have this computer on-board for navigation and day to day tasks:

https://www.amazon.com/MINIX-NEO-Z83...70_&dpSrc=srch

Pros:
- low power
- wide input 12V power
- fan-less, not sucking in moist air.
- relatively cheap, Raspbery Pi is much cheaper but not as powerful or easy to setup and use.
- small

Cons:
- 32G SSD in order to qualify for Win10 cheap licence. I use an SD card and USB hard-drive for extra storage.

I have it mounted in a dry place connected to an HDMI monitor and wireless keyboard/Mouse at the Nav. station.
It is also connected to SSB&Pactor Modem for Winlink, Depth/Speed/Wind instruments, AIS, Navico RADAR, Long Range USB WiFi antenna, and Battery monitor.

I also have a laptop, but rarely bother to get it out anymore, since this works well for most things I am doing. The power draw is so low that I leave it on most of the time, just turning off the monitor. It is certainly more than adequate to run OpenCPN With dual RADAR displays, ARPA, chart overlay, AIS, and Instruments displayed simultaneously.

I am thinking of adding a FayTech IP65Waterproof, Sunlight view-able outdoor touchscreen in the cockpit:
https://www.faytech.us/touchscreen-monitor/industrial/

[NahanniV]

One more thing.

The fan-less PC that I outlined in my previous post can be swapped out for a RaspberryPi3 computer that is loaded and ready to go with OpenCPN and charts.

I can swap it in less than 5 minutes, and have it up and running all the same navigation functions.

I don't use the Rpi normally since there are some things that are not available in Linux and many that I find easier in Windows.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by NahanniV

- relatively cheap, Raspbery Pi is much cheaper but not as powerful or easy to setup and use.

Have you tried the latest releases of the Openplotter image for the Pi?

Having played around with Win machines and Pi's onboard I would say the Pi is streets ahead for ease of setup and use, the operating system is built just for boats, menus for most things including a large range of sensors which would be a major feat to set up on windows, plus the whole system runs on signalk. Can't think of another system which comes close to the integration it offers.

[NahanniV]

Originally Posted by conachair

Have you tried the latest releases of the Openplotter image for the Pi?

Having played around with Win machines and Pi's onboard I would say the Pi is streets ahead for ease of setup and use, the operating system is built just for boats, menus for most things including a large range of sensors which would be a major feat to set up on windows, plus the whole system runs on signalk. Can't think of another system which comes close to the integration it offers.

Yes, that's what I have loaded.
Works great for navigation.

However, It is very handy for me to use my Nav Station computer for day to day things as well and there are a few things I can not do with the RPi:
- Winlink client.
- Printer Driver - can not get my Multi Function printer to work.
- Camera software
- Other Windows specific programs.
- Some file formats do not transfer well between Windows (most of world) and Linux.

And generally I find that if I have a problem in Linux I may be able to find a solution to it online, but even if I can I often spend hours just trying to decipher the advice being offered. With windows there is inevitably an easy fix with an illustrated tutorial, perhaps even a video. There have been times when I have enjoyed playing with this stuff, but now we are sailing there is too much else to do, I just want(need) it to work.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by NahanniV

Yes, that's what I have loaded.
Works great for navigation.

However, It is very handy for me to use my Nav Station computer for day to day things as well and there are a few things I can not do with the RPi:
- Winlink client.
- Printer Driver - can not get my Multi Function printer to work.
- Camera software
- Other Windows specific programs.
- Some file formats do not transfer well between Windows (most of world) and Linux.

And generally I find that if I have a problem in Linux I may be able to find a solution to it online, but even if I can I often spend hours just trying to decipher the advice being offered. With windows there is inevitably an easy fix with an illustrated tutorial, perhaps even a video. There have been times when I have enjoyed playing with this stuff, but now we are sailing there is too much else to do, I just want(need) it to work.

OK, you're right there - for non boat nav computer stuff it's not ideal, Openplotter is very much setup for just boat nav & monitoring stuff so nothing at all extra has been added nor will be, the developers are very strict on that front - it has to be stable with no unnecessary bells or whistles.
Shame winlink won't run on linux, that's the only thing I need a win machine for offshore.
Day to day I just use a laptop for most things.

[settlednomad]

Originally Posted by NahanniV

I have this computer on-board for navigation and day to day tasks:

https://www.amazon.com/MINIX-NEO-Z83...70_&dpSrc=srch

Pros:
- low power
- wide input 12V power
- fan-less, not sucking in moist air.
- relatively cheap, Raspbery Pi is much cheaper but not as powerful or easy to setup and use.
- small

Cons:
- 32G SSD in order to qualify for Win10 cheap licence. I use an SD card and USB hard-drive for extra storage.

I have it mounted in a dry place connected to an HDMI monitor and wireless keyboard/Mouse at the Nav. station.
It is also connected to SSB&Pactor Modem for Winlink, Depth/Speed/Wind instruments, AIS, Navico RADAR, Long Range USB WiFi antenna, and Battery monitor.

For something so small and relatively low on processing power, when compared to high-end Macs and Windows machines, you seem to get it to do an awful lot of work! All of the computing suggestions in this thread have opened my eyes to a whole new world of technology and options. Plenty for me to think about.

[john61ct]

Too underpowered for me, unless saving a couple hundred is a big issue for you.

Only geeks who enjoy figuring stuff out should IMO bother any Linux DIY.