How much time do you spend waiting for weather windows?

[MicHughV]

And then there is this.

Some years back I met a South African family, two adults and two kids on a home built catamaran on their rtw trip.

Get this...at night, during open water passages, the entire family "went to bed" after leaving the boat on autopilot during the night.

The skipper informed me that during their entire trip they never experienced more an about 15 knots of wind always from a favorable quarter. Never had any issues worth mentioning either.

These days, sailors are often seen huddled together with other sailors pouring over the latest and greatest weather maps, computer wind models, and every other modern computerized gadget or gizmo, trying to determine an optimum time to leave for a short trip, yet never leave the dock.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by dustman

For those of you who have sailed around the world or have extensive sailing experience; what percentage of your total traveling time is spent waiting for good weather windows?

Not a circumnavigator, but I have travelled in sometimes challenging areas. How long we wait depends entirely on the circumstances. I've often waited a week or more. Sometimes mere hours or days is all that's needed. I don't think there's any way to name a fixed percentage. It really depends.

I do agree with MicHughV. Weather forecasts out past three our four days diminish in accuracy rapidly. Big system stuff is more predictable, but can only give you a general assessment of actual conditions. Nothing wrong with looking at these extended forecasts, but don't put a lot of stock in them.

[Montanan]

Suggestion - Reverse the concept, dispense with waiting entirely:

wait·ing
[ˈwādiNG]
NOUN
the action of staying where one is or delaying action until a particular time or until something else happens.

One should enjoy the time in the port / anchorage and thence feel reluctant to leave by a persuasive motivation towards utilizing a period of fortuitous weather for voyaging.

Keep the mindset on where one is at, not about the next journey and destination.

A Schedule? A destination??? Don't need no stinking schedule or a destination in mind.

One does not need to spend one's time in life waiting.

[JPA Cate]

Schedules:

We had some dear friends (now both have passed on), who used to fly to meet us in exotic areas. They were experienced travelers, and usually came for 6 weeks or so. They had their own smaller boat back in the SF Bay Area. So, how did we manage passages with them or to get them to their plane on time?

In Papeete, we met at the Port Captain's office. In New Caledonia, at Marina Moselle. But they were the kind of people who already knew how to find places they'd never been, so it wasn't difficult for them, or us.

One time we were in Eden (southern New South Wales, Oz), and the weather still hadn't come right. Four days before they left the States, to meet in Tasmania, we settled on Plan B for them: they would take the bus to an hotel, and we would rendezvous there for them. As it happened, the wx changed, and we arrived the night before the plane arrived in the morning. One just has to allow enough time to get to a connecting flight or bus. We took them to Lizard Is. one year, they flew into Cairns and out of there, too.

The year we met them in Vanuatu, we also made a loop. Schedules can be the very devil, and the only way to loosen them that we've found is to have a longer, more relaxed time together, or to have only one or two short sails planned, where the exposure to the possibility of difficult weather is very limited. This varies with location, considerably.

You will find people who say things like, never stay more than 3 days, that people, like fish, start to stink. My personal thoughts about this are that they may be right, perhaps even often, but for us, we only invite people we like a lot, and longer stays have been a lot of fun, together. And they made it easier by helping with with groceries, and bringing little gifts.

Ann

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I left Bermuda one year with a favorable weather forecast and outlook.
Three days later I was in the most horrific storm I've ever been in.
It's been my experience that predicting the future weather is little different from throwing the bones.
At best, an offshore weather forecast is good for 2, maybe 3 days, after that.....you are on your own. Even highly acclaimed weather routers can, and do, get it wrong.

Originally Posted by MicHughV

...
These days, sailors are often seen huddled together with other sailors pouring over the latest and greatest weather maps, computer wind models, and every other modern computerized gadget or gizmo, trying to determine an optimum time to leave for a short trip, yet never leave the dock.

Reading through the responses in this thread has been fascinating. Thanks for the contributions all.

But the two posts above from MicHughV really caught my eye and if I may offer my thoughts (and I do admit these have no basis more reliable than my own meandering experiences).

As I sit here on my boat in the islands of Fiji we’ve just officially entered two important climate modes, the El Nino Oscillation and Cyclone Season, and just the mention of the later brings fear and foreboding to many around me. So to start my dissertation, and make an offbeat observation, I never fail to be surprised by the odd reality that many of my fellow cruisers actually rely on the dates. So officially cyclone season here is 1 November thru 30 April. The local Met office have this to say: occasionally cyclones have formed in October and May and rarely in September and June. Therefore, out of season Tropical Cyclones cannot be ruled out.

Do people really think that Zeus actually checks the calendar, whilst mulling a thought about sending a storm to some hapless tiny island nation and the associated sail boats in proximity? Or perhaps sailors assume Metis (his primary wife) would yell from her chambers ‘No Zeus, it’s another 6 days before the official season'. But seriously I often time hear, and observe my fellow cruisers behaving as if weather works to a calendar and are then surprised, even horrified when it all turns to 5hite.

There’s a similar attitude to the physical boundaries of the cyclone area, and so being say above/below/beyond a certain geographic coordinate makes one immune from a cyclonic event. And let’s be real here, a cyclone, typhoon, hurricane, polar low, tempest, whatever the label applied within specific frameworks defined by meteorologists is merely that, a label. 50 knots experienced is 50 knots whether defined within the bounds of a cyclone, storm or whatever. In addition I notice people failing to appreciate the vastness of the effect of such storms. So recently for example fellow cruisers on a trip from Tonga to Fiji, feeling safe, in the knowledge that active cyclone Lola was having her wicked way with Vanuatu, nearly 1,000 miles to the west. Yet they experienced, for a couple of days on their trip, what they described as bizarre and scary squalls and quite atrocious seas: surprise, surprise.

With that point dealt with, my next is that we are confronted with such a variety of weather forecast offerings; local met service, windfinder, windy, baron, predictwind et al and then within all of those apps are the models themselves (frustratingly to me often in conflict within the same app) and now we’re sliding in to the new worlds of AI based forecast models. To wit: I am confronted and overwhelmed by way too much information. I can choose one of several options, pick a forecast that suits my plans and go, pick a forecast with a cognitive bias that reinforces my ‘gut feel’ to remain and not go, or perhaps just throw caution to the wind and think fµck it, let’s just go (as I’ve done several times).

And let’s just be real for a moment, interpreting the presentations of such models is no easy task. Thinking back through my various trainings as a (amateur) mariner, weather understanding and forecasting was a prominent topic at virtually every level. That as a confession, I don’t think I am any better at now than when I sailed dinghies as a kid.

I will just offer one last observed experience. Some years back I was crewing for a chap passaging between New Zealand and Tonga. He and good family were on an organised (and expensive) rally with about 30 other yachts, many elderly Americans. Each morning the members of the fleet assembled at a café in Opua to hear the sage advice of the Rally organiser and his weather guru. And each day for over a week their pronouncement was to stay. And seriously I watched the faces of those senior sailors, and when the announcement to NOT sail was made the sheer relief that passed across their visages was almost visceral as they thanked their god in thoughts. You know I understand too how scary that bit of ocean can be. And for some, it becomes their final (and very sadly) wandering rather than to Catabasis but to Hades.

[JPA Cate]

Ya know, Grant, many indigenous peoples spoke of seasons, but did not label them the way we do, they would have hunger season when food is very scarce, soft rain seasons and heavy rain seasons, and NO DATES. Not having calendars means only that they didn't use calendars, but noticed the changes the skies and land show. At least one I know of, had no concept, no word, for time.

Yes, we've watched analysis paralysis. And we've seen the elderly Yanks with more anchoring experience now than when they left their hemisphere. Imo, it's harder now, because if you want to circumnavigate, the Cape of Good Hope, Agulhas current and all, is probably safer than the Red Sea route. And Rallyes lend such false sense of safety, and encourage relating within the group rather than with foreign sailors and locals.

[Kettlewell]

I see both sides of this issue all the time. There are those that sit and wait for the perfect weather window to cross the Gulf Stream and things are never perfect so they wait for a very long time, and then there are those that are on the radio and the nets and talking to the gurus every day and listening to ridiculous over-precise predictions for their tiny part of the planet that are way beyond what science can actually do. Some of those folks believe the precision and head off when things look pretty iffy in a season when most would not go. OTOH, if you go in the right season using the tried-and-true routes, chances are very good you will be unlikely to encounter anything really bad. I've spoken to several circumnavigators who said the worst they ever saw on the voyage was a lot better than many weekends on Buzzards Bay! On our first trip south we got down to Key Biscayne and were waiting for a weather window to cross to the Bahamas in December. It just kept blowing hard from the north. Finally, we decided to just head out and see how bad the Gulf Stream was, thinking we could turn back if needed. On the way we kept getting buzzed by a helicopter, that we learned later was searching for another sailboat that sank that same day. It was rough! Really rough! My wife fell and bruised her ribs. But, we had seen worse in Buzzards Bay and we kept going and were anchored in the Bahamas by nightfall. Maybe we should have waited, but we didn't and it wasn't that bad. But, we were young, strong, and had a boat that we knew could sail in very rough stuff. Today, being older, with more time on my hands, and a more comfy boat I would probably wait. There are many variables, and as recent posts on here show it can be dangerous or fatal to push on when you don't need to.

[Lee Jerry]

I think it might help to define what the weather window is for: safety or comfort. The former is critical, the latter more subjective.

That said, I have spent almost(*) no time waiting for a weather window. This is due to at least two factors(+):

First, most of my cruising has been in tropical locals / conditions, not high latitudes, so perhaps milder weather (outside of hurricanes).

Second, both of my cruising boats have been, IMHO, rather capable Water boats">blue water boats (true cutter rigs, moderately heavy). This means that they can both safely handle the wind / seas (with appropriate reefing, of course) and also provide relatively comfortable motions. So, while I don't seek it out, I'm rather OK in 30kt winds and somewhat higher, especially if (expected to be) shorter term and/or not beating.

Back in our racing days, there were a few times when racing was cancelled due to inclement weather and we went out sailing anyway. It's only by doing it that you learn and get more comfortable with those conditions. It's one thing to set that third reef or trysail to "check it out," something else to use it in anger. (The previous cruising boat had a trysail that I didn't have to use. It/I did see (and handle) beating into 45kt for a couple days with 3rd reef and small furl in staysail. All done with either the autopilot or windvane, no hand steering.)

* I said almost, because the only time I can recall is our latest long distance voyage (1500nm, last year) we delayed a day, partly because we weren't quite ready and partly because the weather was nasty and rainy. When we left the next day, winds were still high 20s and still rather cold and rainy, but the former a couple kts lower and the latter a couple degrees warmer than the previous day.


The suppose the point is that those windows get wider with more experience (not that you don't have lots) and a properly found boat (not that yours aren't, I mostly don't know what y'all sail).


+ The third being I'm probably just not that bright...

[Kettlewell]

The bottom line for me is, "What's the rush?" Yes, sail in the right seasons on the right routes and wait for decent weather, but if you do that you won't do much waiting. But, if you sail to a schedule you will encounter bad weather.

[sailingharry]

So, there are those that aren't in a rush. They go as far as they get, without any anticipation of getting "there." If there is no "there," then there truly is no need to "go."

Last summer, we did what is without a doubt, the most amazing trip of my life. The Down East Circle. 4000 miles, 3 countries. We had "about" 4 months. No firm route or end time except it gets cold and dark around October. Mike O'Reilly counseled me that 4 months wasn't enough time and we should leave the boat over the winter (and as we left Newfoundland I sent him a note that he was right....).

In that four months, we held for weather perhaps 4 days total. There were days that would have been more pleasant if we hadn't gone (although sitting in a remote cove where you can't even get ashore is beautiful but a tad dull). There were days we elected to go 20 miles instead of 40. There was one day where anyone with sanity wouldn't have gone (but it was downwind and the forecast after that was ugly).

We could easily have justified another 10-20 days (or more!) of weather delays. We could have spent more time in some of the places we stopped. But we would certainly have had to skip Newfoundland and France, and the odds are we would never go again. We might have arrived home in late October, rather than early October.

Even without a firm "schedule," the amount of time waiting depends on your objectives, your tolerance for "bad weather," and your tolerance for sitting still.



circe.travelmap.net

[MicHughV]

I think it can be summed up in a single phrase
" information overload"

When I started cruising, there was no GPS, no Satnav, no Radar, no watermakers, some limited Loran, which was mostly useless offshore, no electronic charting and certainly no cell phone or satphone.

Navigation was done by dead reckoning, RDF, sextant and ticking off lighthouse light signals if you could see them. Sailors kept a running log and marked their course with a pencil tick mark on the chart.

Weather reports were likely sketchy at best, and the only weather available at the time was provided by vhf, which has a limited offshore range.

Inflatable dinks powered by various motors was still in it's infancy. People actually still rowed their dinks.

Ham radio was still a thing for the long distance sailor. In addition there were the High Seas Radio operators.

There was no solar power whatsoever. A few models of wind generators was available, but few boats had them.

Boats did not have a/c, TV's, onboard computers, electric winches, etc.

Many sails were still hanked on.

Paper charts were very much in use by most sailors.

Having a good icebox was a luxury, if you could find ice.

Myself, and most other sailors of that time had a blast. The weather was the weather was the weather. One thing was for sure, the weather today was not likely to be the same the next day. Storm sails were still a thing back then. Most boats had a sail inventory of many different sails. It mattered little if the wind was 5 knots or 20 knots, as long as there was wind, a course could be plotted.

Mooring fields were non existent.

I can go on and on.

Fast forward to today.
Most modern boats are festooned with electronic gadgetry of every kind, generators, etc, but invariably are equipped with only two sails, usually of the self furling variety and sailors have become slaves to these little magic boxes, electric winches, and the list goes on. In addition we now have professional weather routers, etc.
I hate to think what would happen in the event of an onboard power failure.

Sailors were...in my humble opinion...a different breed back then. More capable, more self sufficient, more resourceful, etc. Many cruisers set sail on boats they built themselves.
Cruising was an adventure in the very real sense of the world.

Not meaning to start a firestorm here, but this is how I remember it. It just seems that something has been lost between now and then ??

[Fore and Aft]

MicHughV I hear the tune you're singing. Back in NZ there used to be lots of home-built boats out cruising and having a great time without all luxuries people have today. The cruisers seemed to be more characters and for me more relatable than a lot of sailors today. I am probably a bit rough around the edges and have nothing in common with people spending big money on what is basically a toy or hobby.
An interesting phenomenon I encounter weekly when surveying is the first-time sailor who must have a cat or you're just camping on anything else. Often these clients have never even stepped foot on a mono hull and are surprised how roomy they can be.
As for waiting, I thought you were supposed to be cruising not scheduling? As cliche as it is the saying it's the journey not the destination is so true. One year on our Christmas cruise we only got a two-day sail from our marina due to the miserable weather. Well, that town was well explored and we a had thoroughly good time despite only being in our backyard.
Cheers

[Bellinghamster]

Heh heh, when we started out we spent more time "waiting" than later. A very memorable lesson learned was when we'd been hunkered down in Los Frailes (Baja), a 20-30kn north wind ripping past the point, waiting for "favorable" weather to cross to Puerto Vallarta. A lovely German couple (Klaus and Maria on Ludis Amores, who were on their 2nd (or more) circumnavigation) were over for dinner and we started talking about the wind forecast. I mentioned it was probably going to keep blowing 20-30 for the next couple days, thinking that I'd wait until it passed. They both got a gleam in their eyes, rubbed their hands together and said something like "Good, that'll make for a nice fast passsage!". Well duh! It hit me why we'd spent multiple passages wishing for more wind! We packed up and left with them that evening and had an awesome passage. As we got more comfortable with out boat, our abilities and heavier weather tactics, 20-30kn became good conditions for us rather than an ordeal. On the "milk run" route in the right season, we didn't have any waiting other than to pick the best time between lows from Tonga and NZ. We enjoyed a great anchorage in the Ha'api with friends until it was time to go. That one was the most anxious departure planning in 10k miles.

[Franziska]

You might want to extend your question to how much time do you spent waiting for mail to arrive.



Weather windows are usually a few days pending on the season and your level of acceptance as to what is good. Some folks consider an F6-7 good enough, others will rather wait for F4-5.


Regarding mail, you can wait for weeks in some countries.

[JPA Cate]

Regarding mail, you can wait for weeks in some countries.
__________________

Yes, indeed. And if it's parts you're waiting for, you may wait for visiting friends to bring it/them. Furthermore, you can only pick up mail with your own name on it, not your partners, if you can't show a copy of your birth certificate. Different places have different rules. And as guests, it is proper to not fuss about it.

Ann