How necessary is AIS?

[Mike OReilly]

In case it was missed, I have AIS receiver so have some practical experience with its value. I know... this is where some will say transmit is the real value, yet all the concrete examples here have always been someone being able to call a ship by name and get confirmation of safe passing. I'm sure transmitting your position is useful, but not necessary.

I use our AIS to monitor the approaching traffic. It has been most useful when approaching squeeze points or in thick fog on the St. Lawrence Seaway. But it has never been critical. I rate many more tools (eyes, ears, situational awareness, then stuff like radar, sonar, chartplotter, etc...) higher in value.

So once again, I think AIS is a useful tool, but not necessary in any waters I've experienced.

BTW, the reason I went with receive vs transceiver is a combination of cost, project size and the fact that collision avoidance is my responsibility. Yes, it's everyone's, but I can only control my actions. So receive gives me the info I need.

And I'll admit, I don't like the idea of transmitting to the world where and who I am. Call me paranoid, but "they" already know too much about me. I feel no need to give out more information.

[flyingfin]

Well, it depends on traffic conditions. Go to vesselfinder.com and tell me how comfortable you will be off Florida at night without AIS, passive or active.
I guess you could always use your cellphone to pull down this website if you dont get too far offshore!

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Interesting how most folks who don't have AIS claim not to need it, while folks who do usually consider it invaluable.

It makes sense that those who tend to scorn technology in general are happy with their decision not to buy an AIS unit..........

We can do without the insult!

I'll try to explain it in simple terms:

Not everyone sails across the ocean. Not everyone boats in busy shipping lanes. Not everyone boats at night or in heavy fog. In other words, not everyone needs AIS. (Not everyone needs radar, either) And even if they choose to install AIS, not everyone needs the ability to transmit an AIS signal. And for the third time, it's only been recently that AIS was an option. Before that, people used other means to avoid hitting other vessels.

Now if you do sail across the ocean, if you do boat in busy shipping lanes, and if you do boat at night or in heavy fog, having AIS will contribute to your sense of safety and it is probably worth the expense.

So, despite your post, different people have different needs and there is no single right answer regarding AIS.

[smj]

I believe AIS became popular on recreational boats less than 10 years ago. I don't believe there has been a huge increase in commercial shipping in the last 10 years and we were able to get by without AIS back then so that tells me it isn't necessary yet can be a useful tool if used responsibly.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by smj

I believe AIS became popular on recreational boats less than 10 years ago. I don't believe there has been a huge increase in commercial shipping in the last 10 years and we were able to get by without AIS back then so that tells me it isn't necessary yet can be a useful tool if used responsibly.

Conversly, if AIS is so great at collision avoidance, surely we'd see this reflected in the stats. I've looked and have not seen signs of any major improvement in the stats, but I may not be looking at the right data.

BTW, i just watched a large commercial fishing boat go by. No AIS signal...

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

..snip.....
And I'll admit, I don't like the idea of transmitting to the world where and who I am. Call me paranoid, but "they" already know too much about me. I feel no need to give out more information.

I agree 100% with you and IMO. That is why my transponder spends most of the time in 'standby' mode (i.e. not transmitting). I transmit in low visibility and/or high traffic areas. I have zero issue with receiving my AIS data via marine VHF channels, but find zero value and a complete privacy breach to broadcast it on the Internet.

IMO:

At its 79th session in December 2004, the Maritime Safety Committee (MSC) agreed that, in relation to the issue of freely available automatic information system (AIS)-generated ship data on the world-wide web, the publication on the world-wide web or elsewhere of AIS data transmitted by ships could be detrimental to the safety and security of ships and port facilities and was undermining the efforts of the Organization and its Member States to enhance the safety of navigation and security in the international maritime transport sector.

The Committee condemned the regrettable publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, of AIS data transmitted by ships and urged Member Governments, subject to the provisions of their national laws, to discourage those who make available AIS data to others for publication on the world-wide web, or elsewhere from doing so.

In addition, the Committee condemned those who irresponsibly publish AIS data transmitted by ships on the world-wide web, or elsewhere, particularly if they offer services to the shipping and port industries.

source:
Automatic Identification Systems (AIS)

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

[...] BTW, i just watched a large commercial fishing boat go by. No AIS signal...

I may be incorrect since I have not been on one in any capacity since AIS came into the picture, but it is my guess that the commercial fishermen prefer that competitors not know where they are, where they are going, or preferably not even which way they are heading. Even the big guys have secret spots or may have information about a hot spot that they prefer not to share. A big catch can mean a lot of money, particularly if your boat has the only big catch or maybe just the biggest one.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Conversly, if AIS is so great at collision avoidance, surely we'd see this reflected in the stats. I've looked and have not seen signs of any major improvement in the stats, but I may not be looking at the right data.

BTW, i just watched a large commercial fishing boat go by. No AIS signal...

I would guess we probably have more collisions nowadays since most people seem to have their eyes glued to the screens of their fancy electronic navigation gadgets rather than looking at their surroundings. I've talked to 3 people who have run into buoys that they used as waypoints. They set their autopilot to the waypoint and forgot to keep a watch.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Conversly, if AIS is so great at collision avoidance, surely we'd see this reflected in the stats. I've looked and have not seen signs of any major improvement in the stats, but I may not be looking at the right data.

BTW, i just watched a large commercial fishing boat go by. No AIS signal...

I don't understand how stats can not reflect what would seem to be logical. For instance I have read numerous times that anti lock brakes change the accident rates for automobiles not all, no effect. How, why?

On the fishing boat thing yes, they don't like having them, ones around my home port would only program the MMSI number in the thing, nothing else at all. I believe they don't like it because they feel it's giving away their fishing grounds I guess, sort of like the treasure hunters, think they like displaying exact position all the time?

[Mike OReilly]

Yes, I bet you guys are right about the fishing vessel. When I lived in a port city I had a view of all the shipping vessels going by. It was rare, but not uncommon to pull of the AIS screen and see nothing for a given ship that was in front of my house. For whatever reason not all ships display the requisite signals.

My point (as I'm sure you all get) is that AIS provides a partial picture of reality. In our screen-driven world too many people mistake what they see on their ipad or chartplotter with what is actually in front of them or under them.

AIS is without a doubt a useful tool. But it is certainly not necessary in any waters I'm familiar with, and this includes busy shipping channels.

DotDun, thanks for that info. It's nice to learn my paranoia is occasionally justified [emoji6].

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

.......But it has never been critical. I rate many more tools (eyes, ears, situational awareness, then stuff like radar, sonar, chartplotter, etc...) higher in value.

.......

Well eyes and ears just come with the territory. Situational awareness is the sum of all the inputs, including AIS on most offshore boats. Radar, sonar, chartplotter are all very useful and generally expensive. AIS rx only and now rx/tx units are very high on the bang-for-a-buck scale. The incremental cost to add AIS is not much and way less than Radar.

AIS is not required or needed for any passage, except in locations where authorities require it, such as Thailand. It does reduce the stress and significantly improve situational awareness in crossing situations - even if stats might not show a decrease in accidents, the stats should show a decrease in blood pressure

As far as only using Rx units instead of Rx/Tx, in the past this made sense as the price differential was significant. That is no longer the case with low cost Tx/Rx units available. It seems a little disingenuous to complain about fishing vessels not transmitting when using Rx only AIS yourself. The AIS system only works when vessels contribute by transmitting AIS.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Paul L

improve situational awareness in crossing situations - even if stats might not show a decrease in accidents, the stats should show a decrease in blood pressure



As far as only using Rx units instead of Rx/Tx, in the past this made sense as the price differential was significant. That is no longer the case with low cost Tx/Rx units available. It seems a little disingenuous to complain about fishing vessels not transmitting when using Rx only AIS yourself. The AIS system only works when vessels contribute by transmitting AIS.

Regarding the lower anxiety, you may be correct. Kinda hard to know though... But just to be clear, I wasn't complaining about the fishing vessel and its lack of AIS signal. I was pointing out (with real-time data) that what shows up on the flashing screen does not necessarily reflect reality.

[sailorboy1]

Not only are those of us without AIS idiots who can't navigate, but our wives are ugly and our kids are stupid. I hope that clears up the real world.

For those that use the "why wouldn't you get all the things ....." how many of you have gotten night vision systems? After all it greatly makes night boating safer and just makes sense doesn't it?

[J Clark H356]

I have an AIS receiver that is wifi to my IPhone and IPad and outputs to my nav station computer running Raytech and also radar. I am going to upgrade to a transponder version soon. I think both are very helpful navigation tools. I have cruised in the ocean and find it extremely helpful, but I also found it helpful on the Tennessee and Tenn-Tom waterway where I can see tows around a bend that my radar can't see. It is also handy when approaching a lock to see if a commercial tow is near on either side and you can adjust your speed to make it work scheduling wise better for you.

I found shrimp boats off Cape San Blas didn't transmit and neither did some fishing boats but the big boys do and I had one coming up my stern at night off Cape San Blas and AIS helped me along with my radar and MARPHA to maneuver to avoid getting close. In crossing Tampa Bay, I avoided conflict with a 96 foot x 496 foot Argo ship,going 19 knots. Visually, it looked like it was barely moving but my AIS and radar both gave me notice that I would only clear,1/4 mile when h was at the mouth of the Bay and I was along the Sunshine Skyway. My eyeballs couldn't compute those numbers. In terrible visibility in Mobile Bay, I was able to avoid two shrimp,boats that were transmitting and make a safe pass before they ever saw me. I believe I need it and I want a transmitter too. Anchoring in the Tenn Tom, sometimes along side the waterway outside the channel, next time I want the tows to see me on AIS like I can see them coming. Do I use my eyeballs? Absolutely. I use everything I Ave, but I can also do without any of it but my eyeballs if necessary. The key is don't let electronics help you become complacent or lose your basic skills.

[daletournier]

Several posters have suggested more accidents could or do happen because people are fixated on screens, or as Mike just said the screen dosent always reflect reality.
Imo just silly arguments, no one is suggesting just stare at a screen and ignore everything else or that everything out there will be on that screen. Its like a chartplotter, often coming into anchorages I stop looking at it completely in order to focus 100% on whats immediately around me(coral).
If some use these "screens" incorrectly this dosent reflect a failing in the technology, it reflects a failing in the user.