How necessary is AIS?

[Sandero]

Once again AIS B is a great idea in areas with a lot of traffic... especially travelling different courses. Like having a radar reflector to be seen.

In places like LIS which does have commercial traffic... tows and tankers... and container ships... the problem is not THEIR movement... but the recreational boaters who don't observe rules of the road and too often are not even on watch but on AP with a GPS driving the AP. AIS would be useless with these idiots as they don't even have their VHF radios on...

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by smj

He said he was using the chart plotter and radar to stay in the middle of the channel. WTF?

Those are certainly tools. Looking out the window (!) and radar should have been pretty clear indications of where the marks actually existed.

Originally Posted by Sandero

... but the recreational boaters who don't observe rules of the road and too often are not even on watch but on AP with a GPS driving the AP.

I'm much more comfortable with commercial shipping than recreational boaters. Maybe that's why I like sailing at night so much.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Those are certainly tools. Looking out the window (!) and radar should have been pretty clear indications of where the marks actually existed.



I'm much more comfortable with commercial shipping than recreational boaters. Maybe that's why I like sailing at night so much.

No markers, land on the side. VERY visible to the naked eye!

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by daletournier

But Mike the necessary argument can apply to so many things on our boats, what's truely necessary to get from A to B? You are right Ais is not necessary, but where does the "not necessary list start and stop" maybe the question needs to be rephrased?

Yes, that’s a good question and good point Dale. I agree... It’s really the root of many of the more interesting, and sometimes heated, CF discussions. I’d rephrase it slightly by asking: What is enough? What do any of us really need?

Of course, the answer to what is necessary, or what is enough, can only be answered by each of us. This is why I usually couch my responses to these kinds of questions by saying 'this is what works for me.’

As with most things in cruising, and in life, there is rarely only one right answer.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Your time will come.... or rather, your "Oh Schitt!" moment.

Ah grasshopper… you will understand one day (maybe ).

[Dave22q]

Thanks all for your well intentioned comments. I was very specific about my concerns but most responders ignored that as too difficult to read. I tend to be simple minded. I assume watch standers on large ships would overlook or ignore the faint return from a radar reflector. I want to spot ships to get well out of their path not hope they are awake enough for conversation. As for radar, I have no room for a tech to try to estimate courses from radar returns.
Back to my specific issues. Sailing north in the Gulf Stream. Unlighted S/B fishing boats are a hazard I will live with along with floating cargo containers and Moby Dick. Getting run down by a N/B freighter is something I want to protect against. Is an AIS receiver worthwhile in the sea lanes leading to Miami, Port Everglades, or Canaveral? For those who have done it, is avoiding crossing major entry lanes at night worth an extra day or two or not?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Thanks all for your well intentioned comments. I was very specific about my concerns but most responders ignored that as too difficult to read. I tend to be simple minded. I assume watch standers on large ships would overlook or ignore the faint return from a radar reflector. I want to spot ships to get well out of their path not hope they are awake enough for conversation. As for radar, I have no room for a tech to try to estimate courses from radar returns.
Back to my specific issues. Sailing north in the Gulf Stream. Unlighted S/B fishing boats are a hazard I will live with along with floating cargo containers and Moby Dick. Getting run down by a N/B freighter is something I want to protect against. Is an AIS receiver worthwhile in the sea lanes leading to Miami, Port Everglades, or Canaveral? For those who have done it, is avoiding crossing major entry lanes at night worth an extra day or two or not?

Dave
This not a long passage. AIS would be nice and it's benefits have been beat to death in the last 95 posts. You don't need it just for this trip. For me it is a very cost effective benefit. There is no point in going day(s) out of your way on this passage. Decide if you want to break the trip up into multiple segments and head off with good weather predicted. The Gulfstream will shoot you up and should make for a quick passage.

[a64pilot]

AIS if your transmitting may at first seem like it's not doing anything, until you realize that the reason your not dodging ships anymore, is because they set a course to avoid you , before you detected them visually.
Zoom your plotter out and pay attention and you will see the little course changes, and that was going North in the Steam from Miami to Ft Lauderdale at night and then a day trip from Ft Lauderdale to Stuart.

That is a very busy piece of water

It is a fun trip, cause I was making 10+ kts SOG with 6 kts speed through the water, 4+ kt boost, only way my boat could make a 200+ mile day

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Getting run down by a N/B freighter is something I want to protect against. Is an AIS receiver worthwhile in the sea lanes leading to Miami, Port Everglades, or Canaveral? For those who have done it, is avoiding crossing major entry lanes at night worth an extra day or two or not?

As a Master Mariner, having an AIS transponder on your boat makes my day a whole lot easier when I can see you....

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Thanks all for your well intentioned comments. I was very specific about my concerns but most responders ignored that as too difficult to read.

I feel you got the answer:

If someone has AIS then the answer is you absolutely need it and it's right up there near the top as a must have item.

If someone doesn't have it then the answer is you don't need it.

I've crossed all the shipping lanes you listed in both day and night and I don't have AIS and don't have plans to get it.

[hsi88]

Traveling at night? Have a chartplotter? Do yourself a favor, look up dAISy on the Internet and spend the $60 to have AIS. I have one and it works very well. My ONLY night trip in a long time was interrupted by a tug and 200 foot barge that happened to see us. I did not notice it even though it was a very clear (but very dark) night. I was outside the shipping lane and so was he. As it went by, I still couldn't see it clearly. Only some faint lights on the tug 200 feet behind the bow. I have since swapped stories with LOTS of people that have had close calls at night. We ALL use AIS today. AIS is cheap insurance!

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

If someone has AIS then the answer is you absolutely need it and it's right up there near the top as a must have item.

Sailorboy, have you actually seen this type of response here??? Most of who have AIS of any type are pretty honest about the usefulness of it. I certainly haven't said or implied that it is a must-have item.

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

If someone doesn't have it then the answer is you don't need it.

I've crossed all the shipping lanes you listed in both day and night and I don't have AIS and don't have plans to get it.

Well I'm very happy for you. I have sailed many miles without AIS as well, and would not hesitate to sail without it again. I do have a transponder, and I appreciate the information it gives me (and others), but if it stopped working tomorrow I wouldn't panic.

I really don't understand your take on this discussion, and I wish you wouldn't mis-characterize the responses from AIS proponents.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by hsi88

Traveling at night? Have a chartplotter? Do yourself a favor, look up dAISy on the Internet and spend the $60 to have AIS. I have one and it works very well. My ONLY night trip in a long time was interrupted by a tug and 200 foot barge that happened to see us. I did not notice it even though it was a very clear (but very dark) night. I was outside the shipping lane and so was he. As it went by, I still couldn't see it clearly. Only some faint lights on the tug 200 feet behind the bow. I have since swapped stories with LOTS of people that have had close calls at night. We ALL use AIS today. AIS is cheap insurance!

https://www.tindie.com/products/astu...-ais-receiver/

$60!!!!!! So the arguments for not having are?

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by daletournier

$60!!!!!! So the arguments for not having are?

Wearing my Devil's Advocate hat:

1) False sense of security -- not all hazards transmit AIS.
2) With AIS you stare at the screen when you should be keeping watch by looking out the window.
3) More electronics stuff to draw current and eventually fail.

All of these are actually reasonable concerns. However, they don't prevent me from finding AIS to be a valuable aid. This all takes practice.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

2) With AIS you stare glance at the screen when you should be keeping briefly cease to watch by looking out the window. all round

There fixed it for you.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by hsi88

Traveling at night? Have a chartplotter? Do yourself a favor, look up dAISy on the Internet and spend the $60 to have AIS. I have one and it works very well. My ONLY night trip in a long time was interrupted by a tug and 200 foot barge that happened to see us. I did not notice it even though it was a very clear (but very dark) night. I was outside the shipping lane and so was he. As it went by, I still couldn't see it clearly. Only some faint lights on the tug 200 feet behind the bow. I have since swapped stories with LOTS of people that have had close calls at night. We ALL use AIS today. AIS is cheap insurance!

I cannot disagree that it is cheap, as in inexpensive, but it is not insurance of, for, or against anything, although it helps. It is not quite a second set of eyes, nor is it radar, but it is better to have than not to have, unless one becomes reliant on it or expects the other guy to do the proper thing because the vessel has it. Protect yourself at all times.