How to evade/postpone USA export duty

[DirtyPigeon]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Or if you want to stay in budget there's boats in Holland like this..
https://www.inautia.com/used-boat-38...535450554.html

I should sail boats over there, in the states that boat wouldn’t get anywhere near that price

I think he might have a good plan to come to the US if that is as far as his money would go over there

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by DirtyPigeon

I should sail boats over there, in the states that boat wouldn’t get anywhere near that price

I think he might have a good plan to come to the US if that is as far as his money would go over there

The pedigree and encapsulated keel is the value.. the big brother of my Hurley 22.. a proper little ship.
Also, he'd likely be able to knock the price down.
But hey..!!! don't let me put you off a money spinner..

[George DuBose]

First, sneaking into the UK isn't as easy as one thinks. I was told by the Irish immigration officer that my boat was observed far offshore and they knew I was coming from Canada. The watchers are watching.

Secondly, due to flying the Stars and Stripes, I have regularly been controlled by immigration and customs all over Europe. The French Douane even told me that they thought I paid too little for my boat, but I explained that she didn't look so nice when I bought her on eBay.

There are controls and if one hasn't paid the VAT or had the vessel CE marked by passing the Post-Construction Assessment survey, the fines can be up to 5000 euros, plus all the "defects" according to EU law must be addressed.

[parkstone bay]

When you import her into the UK, (depending on what happens in Jan 2021 with the blessed EU), you will certainly have to pay VAT on her assessed value (20% of whatever the man in the suit says she's worth) AND (possibly) have to carry out modifications to bring her into line with the Leisure Craft Directive. Some of these might be eye-wateringly expensive, if not practically impossible.

It's best as a UK resident to buy a Brit (or EU) registered boat. USA - built or -registered, almost certainly a costly exercise, and maybe a really difficult one.

[aeronautic1]

The duty is on the import side of the equation, not the export. However, if cruising is your plan, you, as a foreign national, can register the boat in any US state you choose. Preferably a low Sales tax state.

[sv Stella Maris]

Don't go to the US or Puerto Rico with the boat 😂👍

[parkstone bay]

Originally Posted by aeronautic1

The duty is on the import side of the equation, not the export. However, if cruising is your plan, you, as a foreign national, can register the boat in any US state you choose. Preferably a low Sales tax state.

if the OP, a UK national, is going to import the boat permanently into the UK, he'll still have to pay VAT at 20% on its assessed value, (or stay not longer than 180 days in UK/EU waters) . During 2020, (and probably longer with the current Government) EU rules still apply in the UK.
BTW I used the term "Leisure Craft Directive" in an earlier post. Mea Culpa, and apologies; should be "Recreational Craft Directive".

[DeValency]

My two cents here...
- if you are a UK Citizen why buy a boat in the US? Especially with your modest budget, that in no way be enough to buy a good cruiser, refit etc. anywhere in the world. If you purchase locally, a VAT paid boat you have no import taxes. - anyway, the budget may be the show stopper already.

- something I always recommend, regardless the budget - the cruise safely and successfully offshore, you need years of sailing experience and a crew. You may not even like it after a week of coastal sailing... but to start with, join a sailing club near home and see how far you go.

Best of luck!

Originally Posted by SEAHORSES2

I have spent a lot of time in canoes, on surfboards and in small power boats, mainly in South Africa.

Now i'm attracted to learning how to sail - blue water in particular.

Living in Scotland near Glasgow with the cold as a 60 year old landlubber has it's challenges.



I hope to purchase a second hand 30 footer for less than £10k to do a circumnavigation.

There are lots of suitable blue water yachts for sale on the east coast of the USA.

The problem is that being British and not American means that I would have to pay excessive Export Duty.

Are there any legal exceptions/loopholes that I could consider?

[sfletc]

Apologies for bringing to life an old thread but it appears to answer a question of mine, so I'd like to clarify my understanding and I thought it best to tag this thread rather than begin a new one.

(based in UK) If I am interested in a boat in the US or Caribbean that was manufactured in the UK pre-1986 and immediately exported to US, then I could still import this into the UK for the first time, and would only pay VAT, as it would qualify as not needing to comply with RCD...is that a correct interpretation of RCD position? What sort of proof would be necessary to show that it was built in EEA pre-1986, is a makers mark sufficient? Anybody have experience of this?

regards

sfletc.

Originally Posted by Montanan

Generally there are two sets of requirements that must be satisfied when a boat is imported into the EU – payment of VAT and compliance with the Recreational Craft Directive.

Notice 8: sailing your pleasure craft to and from the UK

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-uk#P151_19000

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...nd-from-the-uk

When arriving direct from a country outside the EU (the Channel Islands are regarded as outside the EU for this purpose), you must phone the National Yachtline. You will need to inform the Yachtline if any of the following apply:

VAT has not been paid on the vessel
you have any goods in excess of the travellers’ allowance detailed in Notice 1: Travelling to the UK
you have on board goods which are to be treated as duty free stores
you have any prohibited or restricted goods
there is any notifiable illness on board
there are any people on board who need immigration clearance
any repairs or modifications, other than running repairs, have been carried out since the vessel last left the UK or EU
You will need to comply with any further instructions that you are given.

If arriving from outside the EU the National Yachtline will ask you to complete form C1331. If you already have a form C1331 part 2 on board, from when the vessel left the UK, you should complete section (iii) amending details of persons on board, if necessary, then sign and date the form again. You can obtain form C1331 or by phoning the Imports and exports: general enquiries helpline. The form may also be available from some local yacht clubs and marinas.

You should send the completed C1331 forms to the UKBA address shown in paragraph 7.2 which is also given on the C1331 form.

Except for contacting the customs authorities as above, you must not land goods or persons or transfer them to another vessel until a customs official says you may do so.

The boat will be subject to assessment by the nation's notified body.

For the UK one can look up the Notified Bodies, here: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-da...ody&cou_id=826


Useful reference link at the RYA as to importing a boat: https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...directive.aspx

"Post construction assessment

If the boat does not have a builder’s plate/CE marking you will need to establish whether or not it should be RCD compliant. If it should be RCD compliant then you will need a Post Construction Assessment carried out. The legal requirement for this is set out in Article 19 of the Directive and the procedure is laid down in Annex V.

If the boat is exempt from the RCD then you should get documentary evidence to prove this in case you are asked for such proof at a later date.

A boat which is not exempt from the RCD, but which is not CE marked for whatever reason – such as a boat which was manufactured outside the EEA which is being imported into the EEA (which is not only visiting the EEA for reasons of tourism or in transit) – will need a post construction assessment (which may result in significant modifications) in order for the boat to be certified RCD compliant.

A post construction assessment for a non-compliant vessel which is imported from a third country can only be applied for by private importers. A post construction assessment can be arranged through a Notified Body.

Details of Notified Bodies are listed on the EU Commission website. (In the left hand menu select 'Country' , then choose 'United Kingdom', the in the dropdown list choose '2013/53/EU Recreational Craft and Watercraft' to see a list of Notified Bodies for the RCD in the UK)." https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-da...n=country.main



The Recreational Craft Directive, Directive 2013/53/EU, originally Directive 94/25/EC on recreational craft[1] amended by Directive 2003/44/EC, is a European Union directive which sets out minimum technical, safety and environmental standards for the trade of boats, personal watercraft, marine engines and components in Europe. It covers boats between 2.5 and 24m, personal watercraft, engines and a number of components built since 1998. It ensures their suitability for sale and use in Europe.

The 2013 Directive is usually referred to as RCD2 to differentiate it from the 1994 original.

REGULATIONS AFFECTING BOATS PERMANENTLY IMPORTED INTO THE EU

European Union Recreational Craft Directive (RCD)

Since 16 June 1998 all recreational craft with few exceptions, between 2.5 metres and 24 metres in length, imported into the European Economic Area (EEA) for the first time, and home-built boats if placed on the market within five years of completion, must comply with the essential requirements of the Recreational Craft Directive (RCD) and must be CE marked. The EEA includes all EU countries plus Iceland and Norway

Boats that will need to comply with the Directive and be CE marked include:

Boats built outside the EEA which were not put into service in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998. Put into service means the first use by the end user but does not include boats put temporarily into service for reasons of tourism or transit.
Boats built for own use if subsequently placed on the EEA market during a period of five years of completion. Placed on the EEA market means the first making available against payment or free of charge


Boats that do not need to comply with the Directive include:

Boats completed or put into service in the EEA (and territories*) prior to 16 June 1998.
Boats built in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998 even if exported and subsequently re-imported after 16 June 1998.
Boats built for own use provided they are not subsequently placed on the EEA market during a period of five years.
Boats intended for racing and labelled as such by the manufacturer, his agent or the importer.
Canoes kayaks, gondolas, pedalos, sailing surfboards, powered surfboards and personal watercraft.
Boats designed before 1950, built predominantly of the original materials and labelled as such by the manufacturer, his agent or the importer.

Directive 94/25/EC, as amended by 2003/44/EC, applies to new and second hand recreational craft from 2.5m to 24m in length, personal watercraft, marine propulsion engines and components placed on the market for the first time after 1998. Products excluded from the scope of the Directive include: canoes, kayaks, gondolas, pedalos, sailing surfboards, surfboards, racing boats, historical craft, craft built for own use provided that they are not subsequently placed on the market during a period of five years, commercial vessels carrying passengers (covered by separate legislation), submersibles, air cushion vehicles, hydrofoils, and external combustion steam powered craft.

Products falling within the scope of the Directive must comply with the essential requirements set out in the Annex I. These include requirements for the design and construction of crafts such as boat design categories, craft identification, the owner's manual, as well as integrity, structural and installation requirements. Other requirements apply to the exhaust and noise emissions from propulsion engines. To comply with the essential requirements, over 60 EN-ISO harmonised standards were developed, which provide guidelines to meet the essential requirements. Using the EN-ISO harmonised standards is voluntary and provides presumption of conformity with the Directive's requirements. However, manufacturers may choose alternative solutions to comply with the essential requirements.

Harmonised standards for Directive 94/25/EC are developed at international level by the International Organization for Standardization in the ISO Technical Committee 188.

Products which fulfill the Directive's essential requirements must bear the CE marking of conformity. The CE marking must appear in a visible, legible and indelible form on the product or, in the case of small components, its packaging. Where relevant, it should be accompanied by the identification number of the Notified body that carried out the conformity assessment procedures.

In addition to the CE marking, the recreational craft must be accompanied by the following documentations and markings: the boat builder's plate; craft and engine identification number; owner's manual; and a written declaration of conformity. These items are necessary for the product to be considered as compliant with the requirements of the Directive.

Notified bodies are appointed at the national level by EU Member States to carry out conformity assessments on boats and engines according to the requirements of the Directive. To assist in the uniform interpretation and application of the Directive, the Recreational Craft Sectoral Group was established in 1995.


Since 18 January 2017, the latest version of the Recreational Craft Directive 2013/53/EU became applicable.
The new directive now requires the means of reboarding to be: accessible to or deployable by a person in the water unaided. Sailing yachts now need to comply with visibility for helmsman requirements.

Means of escape in the event of inversion is now only required for multihull susceptible to inversion.

Toilets must now have a holding tank, toilets can not be discharged directly overboard but must pass through the holding tank Manufacturers need to ensure that the propulsion engines are now complying with RCD.

When is EU VAT Payable?

A VAT is due:-

If a non-EU boat remains in the EU beyond its Temporary Importation relief period (maximum 2 years if part of it is in bond).
If a non-EU boat is sold within the EU.
If a boat is used by an EU resident.
If a VAT-paid boat leaves the EU for more than 3 years and is not returned by the same owner or has more than running repairs done while away.
Paying EU VAT on a Boat

A VAT-paid boat can remain permanently in the EU and be sailed by anyone, whether an EU resident or not.

The amount of VAT to be paid is based on its current value. It is payable at the first port of call once the tax is due. It is, therefore, wise to consider the most advantageous country in which to import the boat. There is not so much variation in VAT rates as there used to be, so it will more likely depend on how sympathetic a valuation can be obtained and how easy the process proves to be.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by sfletc

Apologies for bringing to life an old thread but it appears to answer a question of mine, so I'd like to clarify my understanding and I thought it best to tag this thread rather than begin a new one.

(based in UK) If I am interested in a boat in the US or Caribbean that was manufactured in the UK pre-1986 and immediately exported to US, then I could still import this into the UK for the first time, and would only pay VAT, as it would qualify as not needing to comply with RCD...is that a correct interpretation of RCD position? What sort of proof would be necessary to show that it was built in EEA pre-1986, is a makers mark sufficient? Anybody have experience of this?

regards

sfletc.

I have highlighted what appears to be the definitive facts of your inquiry.

I have snipped and copied below the portion of my prior post which would seem to be applicable to your stated circumstances.

Boats that do not need to comply with the Directive include:

Boats completed or put into service in the EEA (and territories*) prior to 16 June 1998.

Boats built in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998 even if exported and subsequently re-imported after 16 June 1998.

All the best.

[sfletc]

Originally Posted by Montanan

I have highlighted what appears to be the definitive facts of your inquiry.

I have snipped and copied below the portion of my prior post which would seem to be applicable to your stated circumstances.

Boats that do not need to comply with the Directive include:

Boats completed or put into service in the EEA (and territories*) prior to 16 June 1998.

Boats built in the EEA prior to 16 June 1998 even if exported and subsequently re-imported after 16 June 1998.

All the best.

Thank you for a quick response. Very useful for me as I'm looking at a boat that won't need to comply - may rule it out on other grounds, but complex RCD compliance won't be the factor.

Has anybody ever been challenged on this? What minimal proof might satisfy the challenger <who is this BTW?> that the boat was manufactured in EEA? i.e. if the original builders certificate is not available, what's next best?

[George DuBose]

In 2009, I paid the VAT to the Netherlands on my 1973 US built and US-flagged boat when I sailed it over from the US. I paid around 2000 euros VAT and another 2000 euros to get the boat CE-marked.

Two years ago, I was controlled by the French Douane. They had a difficult time figuring out the VAT papers and then they looked at my original bill of sale and told me I paid too little for the boat and that they could revalue it and charge me more VAT.

I told them that they didn't see the old gal when I bought her.

So the authorities do check paperwork and my US flag is like a red flag to a bull. I added AIS and one of the reasons was so the various immigration and customs vessels see that I am not trying to hide from anyone and in some cases, they don't need to control me twice in one day.

I actually think that Skylark is becoming "known" in the EU, the officers at Maasmund, the channel that leads to Rotterdam and Antwerp now say "hello" to me, nice to see you again...etc.

[denverd0n]

I would simply add a point of terminology...


At least in the United States, there is a very distinct, and important difference between EVADING taxes, and AVOIDING taxes. When you use the word "evade" it generally refers to breaking the law -- finding ways to get out of paying the taxes that you legally owe. When you use the word "avoid" it generally refers to taking steps that are perfectly legal, in order to reduce the amount of taxes that you owe. Hence, "avoiding" is legal and generally a good idea, while "evading" is illegal and usually highly risky.

[sfletc]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

I would simply add a point of terminology...


At least in the United States, there is a very distinct, and important difference between EVADING taxes, and AVOIDING taxes. When you use the word "evade" it generally refers to breaking the law -- finding ways to get out of paying the taxes that you legally owe. When you use the word "avoid" it generally refers to taking steps that are perfectly legal, in order to reduce the amount of taxes that you owe. Hence, "avoiding" is legal and generally a good idea, while "evading" is illegal and usually highly risky.

very good point - definitely only interested in staying on the correct side of the law and regulation/directive.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

You may find it interesting that adults in MD have to take and pass a safe boating class....but only if born after July 1st, 1972. So my 20+ years as a Coast Guard officer are worth nothing, since I was born a few months after that entirely arbitrary deadline, but someone a year older than me who's never seen the ocean or a boat....good to go!
Actually due to my time in the Coast Guard I'm all in favor of a boating test requirement, but also from that experience where the sea didn't seem to give anyone a break just because if their age (usually the opposite) I hate the fact they so transparently pandered to senior voters in such an arbitrarily discriminatory way. It just makes even those of us fully for the concept against this version of it.

That's simply a "grandfather" clause.

If you simply apply a rule that says as of tomorrow everyone needs to get licensed...it's chaos with great collateral damage.

You also have the issue of the old salt who's been working on the water for decades who may not pass...do you take away his livelihood when he's been out working safely for decades?

Grandfathering is a way to get to the end goal without the chaos. 1972 basically means anyone over 49 is exempt. In 20yrs, you will probably have 95% of the old farts off the water anyway, so you have the system moving in the direction desired by the law.