I'm Done Kissing Frogs.

[Johnathon123]

Originally Posted by savoir

All of these are plastic. Wooden boats are like elephants - I like looking at them but I wouldn't want to own one.

Used Beneteau Oceanis 35 for Sale | Yachthub

Used Beneteau 351 Oceanis for Sale | Yachthub

Used Catalina 36 for Sale | Yachthub

Used Cavalier 37 for Sale | Yachthub

Used Catalina 36 Mkii for Sale | Yachthub

Used Farr 38 for Sale | Yachthub

Used Beneteau Oceanis 390 for Sale | Yachthub

The Catalina 36 does appeal, especially the MarkII

My concern is that everywhere I read they are not really appropriate for "serious cruising"

Have i been misled??

[wizard1_us]

Would it help at all to look to maybe the western shores of the U.S.? There is a nice looking Cape Dory 36 for 95k in San Francisco on Yachtworld.com might want to take a look...good luck.

[Mambo]

Cape Dory 40' Cutter, 1986, Kemah, Texas sailboat for sale

She's in Texas, but the owner is getting ready to list with a broker and that's gotta be worth 10% (probably more). You could probably find a couple of us to sail it home with you . . ..

[Johnathon123]

I do like the Cape Dory

One of the things we need/want as a family is a separate space for the kids, probably quarter berths where they can retreat and have some private space. With 2 kids the Dory doesn't give us that.

Hot berthing with kids would probably kill me, my wife or both of us

[Mambo]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

Hot berthing with kids would probably kill me, my wife or both of us

I can't imagine . . .

The CD40 does have 1 q-berth / aft cabin. It is listed as a double, but that (as always) is a dubious label. See here:CDSOA, Inc. -- CD40

[Kettlewell]

Unfortunately, my experience here in the U.S.A. in buying various boats is that our brokers are generally no better. I can vividly recall traveling 12 hours and looking at a vessel that sounded great in the listing and talking to the broker on the phone but the bottom was covered with huge blisters that I could easily pop with my fingers. As I was doing so the broker was telling me that I was completely wrong and that the boat had had a complete blister job and those weren't blisters that I was actively popping with my finger. They were the size of small tomatoes! Then there was the boat that had water over the floorboards. Or the one that had a hole in the keel big enough to put my fist through. They won't tell you these things.

In any case, I think you could find many examples of the type of boat you are looking for over here, as that was a very popular type. We have lots of Tayanas, Crealocks, various other Perry designs, Cape Dorys, etc. over here. But, it would still take some time and traveling around to search out the good ones. There are lots of boats for sail in the Annapolis and Newport areas that tend to be in a bit better shape than a lot of Florida boats, which have spent more time in the strong sun.

[DeepFrz]

Ah, yes, the one with water over the floorboards, the deck stepped mast almost ready to become a keel stepped mast and lots of dry rot. The one that the broker said was in excellent shape and ready to go. I wondered about the pool of water around the mast step and the loose rigging until I went below and found out the real story. Only this one was in Vancouver.

[Johnathon123]

the one last weekend actually had a waterfall (i kid not) off the top of a cupboard over a bunk on to the floor

It was raining but!

[CharlieCobra]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

So far a have flown the width and breadth of Australia looking at boats on various occasions.

Before doing so I have grilled people regarding there boats (brokers and owners) and have been assured they meet my carefully explained condition criteria (I can make my own assessment otherwise).

Every single time I turn up to a boat that couldn't possibly be the boat they described to me!

Today, after a 6 hour round trip, where a piece of the boats frame actually snapped off when trodden on from the rot (and that was just a small sample of the systemic problem of rot throughout this "impeccable" boat, I have had enough.

What the #%#% do brokers think, you won't be pissed off, that you might just buy the piece of £#%€ they are selling. GET A CLUE!

18 months of this is more than any person should have to handle.

I think I will take up caravanning

I make my living kissing and fixing those frogs... I like 'em...

[Wand]

I wonder Jonathon123 why you're restricting yourself to GRP or wood. To my eye, the most interesting designs are never to be found in GRP. Why not add steel and ferro to your options? In fact, I wouldn't take young kids to sea in GRP - one collision and you're done (oops, I mean imo )

Roberts' boats for example are good for the easy cruising you plan, and usually have ample and comfortable accommodation. They don't win races but that's not a concern for an ex-IORer like you.

For example, here's a Spray (how trad is that!) built in '97 (so steel is very likely good) with an aft for the grownups and (I'll wager) a peak for the kids. It'd be moderate draft, in the price bracket and just up the coast.

http://au.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=153526

Does it do anything for you?

[Johnathon123]

Originally Posted by At sea

I wonder Jonathon123 why you're restricting yourself to GRP or wood. To my eye, the most interesting designs are never to be found in GRP. Why not add steel and ferro to your options? In fact, I wouldn't take young kids to sea in GRP - one collision and you're done (oops, I mean imo )

Roberts' boats for example are goodmformthe cruising you plan, and usually have ample and comfortable accommodation. They don't win races but that's not a concern for an ex-IORer like you. For example, here's a Spray (how trad is that!) built in '97 (so steel is very likely good) with an aft for the grownups and (I'll wager) a peak for the kids. It'd be moderate draft, in the price bracket and just up the coast.

Bruce Roberts Spray 460 Boats for sale Australia, Bruce Roberts Used boat sales, Bruce Roberts Sailing Yachts For Sale Roberts Spray Motorsailer 1997 - Apollo Duck

Does it do anything for you?

I am not sure why I dislike steel, its a bit like me and centre cockpits. There is a Perry designed Con craft 38 that tickled me for a while (bit expensive but you never know) but the steel did it for me.

Maurice Drent Boating Services

Roberts designs as a rule, dont do it for me - no offence to anyone but its just a personal thing

[savoir]

Originally Posted by Johnathon123

The Catalina 36 does appeal, especially the MarkII

My concern is that everywhere I read they are not really appropriate for "serious cruising"

Have i been misled??

Serious cruising ? Hmmm. OK, I'll bite.

Two brands of yacht are squarely aimed at the weekend warrior market and both sell quite well - Hunter and Catalina. Two others are squarely aimed at the charter market and also sell well - Beneteau and Jeanneau. There is no money in building and selling boats built for serious cruising so very few do it. Those who do charge top dollar - Morris, Oyster, Hinckley, Hylas, Swan, Hallberg Rassy, Little Harbor (now broke). Unfortunately, these boats are mostly out of your budget range although you might find one that is around 30 years old.

What to do ? Your choices are a boat from the 70's that needs a pile of work or a mass production boat from the 80's that needs less work.

One of these production boats is the Catalina series. Around 1990 - 95 the style of the series changed in order to meet the market demand for boats with bigger cabin volume. Be it right or be it wrong, that's what the punters wanted and there were bills to be paid down at the boatyard. All the mass production boat manufacturers did the same thing.

The changeover can be seen by the model numbering code. Catalinas have two numbers in the old code such as 36 while the newer ones have a three number code such as 355. You can immediately see that the older boats have a smaller cabin volume. Buyers in the 90s were turned off by that aspect and went for the apparently bigger boat at the same price.

The older Catalina series feels a bit more lively on the helm but they sacrifice useable space below. The older ones sail better to windward and the newer ones are more stable downwind. When the new style boats heel you can feel them slipping sideways a little and bouncing up over the waves rather than punching through them. The difference is divided between the fat underbody forward, high topsides, short keel and huge transom. The newer ones have bigger bunks, better finish below, better fridge and stove and sail much more smoothly downwind. No spilt drinks there.

It's all a trade off.

Take a look at the transom on this 355 which is the new equivalent of the 36.



You can also see the high freeboard and generous bow.



The lower and sleeker freeboard of the 36 is easy to see.



This general philosophy was followed by the other mass producers. Here's the inerior, transom and side view of the 80s designed Beneteau 38s5. That cabin layout might suit your needs.







Compare with the current model Catalina 375 which is bulkier all over especially the transom and aft freeboard.






And so after all that which boat is best ? it's pretty simple really.

[Sabbatical II]

Just sold my boat today. Bought it 2 years ago for 42K. Sold it today for 21K. I had to sell because I've got a new boat coming and I don't want to own two boats. So there's the clue. Find the seller who has to get out and offer half what he's advertised. My broker says that the serious sellers are accepting half what they paid for their boats 4 years ago. Those clinging to the high advertised price are choosing to keep their boats for a while. It's still a buyers market so pucker up for a few more frogs.

Greg

[Cherp]

Jonathon..I don't think you need to go to the US to get a boat. Check out the Catalinas and Beneteaus. They meet your needs. Somebody in this thread suggested a Beneteau 39 on YachtHub which looks pretty good. I've sailed a friend's Catalina 36 in some fairly wild weather and she handled it fine. MarkJ just took a Beneteau 39 around the world. They have good aft accommodation where the children can do their thing.

[Johnathon123]

Thanks everyone, Great analysis Savoir thank you

Yes I think a production might be the way to go but lets see