Inboard engines and a changing world

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

Carbon tax just steals more of people's money, doesn't change anything.

Incorrect.

The proper and full cost of "doing business" is factored into the market price of pretty much everything except energy.

Factories used to dump into oceans, till we realised that was a bad idea. They used to emit via smokestacks, till we realised that was a bad idea.

Now filters and scrubbers add on-cost to production, which is passed on to end users/consumers in the retail price.

At present, consumers are not paying a "fair market price" for their energy if it's produced from burning coal, as the environmental impact cost has not been adequately factored into the retail price.

Once this is done, coal will be history for power gen.

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Did I SAY hybrid?? No! I said electric!

An ELECTRIC car cannot travel across the USA (or Australia) in any practical way. You have to stop for hours to charge the thing all the time, assuming you can find a charging station.

Drive one to Perth and let me know how you make out if you're from NSW or something.

Very wrong. In most major routes in the US and Europe there is a very adequate and ever improving network of rapid chargers. All it takes is a coffee or lunch break to recharge for another 2 or 3 hrs of driving. Many hotels and campgrounds have "destination" chargers which are slower charging, more like home chargers.

Tesla is just completing their network of fast chargers across Canada on the Trans. Canada Hwy. as well as major hwys. connecting Canada and the US.

There are many accounts of people doing long distance travel in full battery powered EVs.

True, there are some EVs that don't have a lot of range but there are some that do and the ranges they have keep improving with each iteration of vehicle.

In my opinion the only "hybrids" that make sense are the plug in hybrids that have a battery range of at least 50 miles. That way at least you are not using fossil fuels for your daily commute. Apparently, in the US, the average daily mileage driven is less than 50 miles.

In the U.S., the average, one-way commute time is 26.1 minutes, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. If you commute to a full-time, 5-day-a-week job, roundtrip that adds up to 4.35 hours a week and over 200 hours (nearly nine days) per year.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Very wrong. In most major routes in the US and Europe there is very adequate and ever improving rapid chargers. All it takes is a coffee or lunch break to recharge for another 2 or 3 hrs of driving. Many hotels and campgrounds have "destination" chargers which are slower charging, more like home chargers.

Tesla is just completing their network of fast chargers across Canada on the Trans. Canada Hwy. as well as major hwys. connecting Canada and the US.

There are many accounts of people doing long distance travel in full battery powered EVs.

True, there are some EVs that don't have a lot of range but there are some that do and the ranges they have keep improving with each iteration of vehicle.

In my opinion the only "hybrids" that make sense are the plug in hybrids that have a battery range of at least 50 miles. That way at least you are not using fossil fuels for your daily commute. Apparently, in the US, the average daily mileage driven is less than 50 miles.

and the Hyundai Ioniq plug in electric is not available for purchase in my state . The dealers are not even allowed to have them brought into the state. I don't know why. I was told to go to Oregon of California to get it .

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

You are missing the point. It requires a push to become big enough to be viable. Until there's enough solar or user "batteries" online to make a significant dent in peak demand, there's not that much benefit to the utility. It's just a pain in the a$$ to them right now. Sometimes a market must be made.

If by push...you mean removing the govt hindrance to adaptation.

Solar is a pain for utility companies because mid-day they have plenty of production capability to meet demand. The result is govt regulation forces them to buy power they don't need at inflated prices while doing nothing to reduce the base load capability that they must maintain.

If you can shift that "production" to early evening (when solar produces nothing), they would happily start on a small scale because if you can impact the peak demand part of the day, that has a huge positive impact for the utility company even on a relatively small scale. It's not uncommon for peak period power to cost end users less than it costs the utility to provide. So not only do they save fuel costs (often only about 1/3 of the KWH price) they also save on base load generating and in some cases grid costs (2/3 of the KWH price). This provides utility companies what they need from an economic sense without the need for subsidy.

Yes, it wouldn't make up 20% of the market in 6 months...but right now the major problem is not a need for incentives but regulation limiting the ability to allow the utility company to implement market based solutions.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Very wrong. In most major routes in the US and Europe there is a very adequate and ever improving network of rapid chargers. All it takes is a coffee or lunch break to recharge for another 2 or 3 hrs of driving. Many hotels and campgrounds have "destination" chargers which are slower charging, more like home chargers.
.

Which is absolutely ridiculous.

Like I said, not practical to travel cross country.

And define "major routes". How about route 10 in the south? That's a major cross country route. When my boat got hit by a hurricane I drove that route from Los Angeles to Florida in a couple really long days.

Show me how you'd do that in an electric car. Lol

Show me the range, the stops you'd make to charge, where the stops are and exactly how many hours of the trip each charge would eat up as you "stop for lunch"

So I also have to drive hungry while I wait for my car to be ready for a charge? What are the odds of the car being hungry when I'm hungry?

Also, I'm talking about Electric cars, not hybrids. Hybrids are just efficient ICE cars. They are the only practical cars with electric drivetrain options since they can be used properly for groceries and work commuting from a nightly charge AND travel cross country.

Hybrids are awesome. I've spent a fair amount of time driving one.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by newhaul

and the Hyundai Ioniq plug in electric is not available for purchase in my state . The dealers are not even allowed to have them brought into the state. I don't know why. I was told to go to Oregon of California to get it .

The Hyundai Ioniq Electric debuted almost three years ago, but up until now it’s only been available in California. Now (January, 2019) Hyundai has announced that it’s shipping the Ioniq Electric and Plug-in Hybrid models to all the CARB states, including California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont, Washington, Maine, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Maryland, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Mexico.
☞ https://www.thetorquereport.com/hyun...l-carb-states/

[OldMan]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Which is absolutely ridiculous.

Like I said, not practical to travel cross country.

And define "major routes". How about route 10 in the south? That's a major cross country route. When my boat got hit by a hurricane I drove that route from Los Angeles to Florida in a couple really long days.

Show me how you'd do that in an electric car. Lol

Show me the range, the stops you'd make to charge, where the stops are and exactly how many hours of the trip each charge would eat up as you "stop for lunch"

So I also have to drive hungry while I wait for my car to be ready for a charge? What are the odds of the car being hungry when I'm hungry?

Also, I'm talking about Electric cars, not hybrids. Hybrids are just efficient ICE cars. They are the only practical cars with electric drivetrain options since they can be used properly for groceries and work commuting from a nightly charge AND travel cross country.

Hybrids are awesome. I've spent a fair amount of time driving one.

Agree!


Plus the fact that Tesla raised prices at their superchargers, they now average $.28KWh (down from $.32 due to customer rebellion!). At that price, I can drive my 2-motor hybrid across country spending less than a Tesla Model 3 spends for electric. A Tesla Model 3 averages 26KWh per 100 miles (average, more at highway speeds). At $.28, that's $7.28 per 100 miles, with a 45mpg 2-motor hybrid you can spend up to $3.27/gallon for gas and be cheaper.


So, I stop for less than 10 minutes to fill the gas tank and can drive 600 miles before stopping again.


EVs are very inconvenient for cross-country trips.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Yes, it wouldn't make up 20% of the market in 6 months...but right now the major problem is not a need for incentives but regulation limiting the ability to allow the utility company to implement market based solutions.

Name just ONE "market-based" solution that the electric utilities are prevented by regulation from implementing.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Name just ONE "market-based" solution that the electric utilities are prevented by regulation from implementing.

Selling power stored in the batteries at market based pricing.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

Incorrect.

The proper and full cost of "doing business" is factored into the market price of pretty much everything except energy.

Factories used to dump into oceans, till we realised that was a bad idea. They used to emit via smokestacks, till we realised that was a bad idea.

Now filters and scrubbers add on-cost to production, which is passed on to end users/consumers in the retail price.

At present, consumers are not paying a "fair market price" for their energy if it's produced from burning coal, as the environmental impact cost has not been adequately factored into the retail price.

Once this is done, coal will be history for power gen.

I find your faith in large government and taxation schemes..disturbing. But that’s the new age thing, just ask government to fix it by forcing your will onto others.

Always thought being more of a Gandhi, be the change you want to see in the world, type, to be much more ethical and honorable

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The Hyundai Ioniq Electric debuted almost three years ago, but up until now it’s only been available in California. Now (January, 2019) Hyundai has announced that it’s shipping the Ioniq Electric and Plug-in Hybrid models to all the CARB states, including California, New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont, Washington, Maine, New York, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Maryland, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Mexico.
☞ https://www.thetorquereport.com/hyun...l-carb-states/

just spent the better part of the day in an email exchange with 3 factory dealers that told me explicitly that the Ioniq will only be available if I want to go to Oregon of California to purchase . They have no plan to expand sales at this time to Washington. I even asked about dealer to dealer transfer . They said no.
The whole reason I was even interested was the current lease deal of $79 a month with $999 due at signing and 10k miles a year.

My youngest and oldest boys both work at a mall store that has free chargeing stations .

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/23...-electric-car/

That's a deal that can't be beat. Also the only reason I would consider a lease.

I hope they expand soon with that deal.

[GordMay]

Try Hyundai of Kirkland, for a new 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV.
Lease: $109 per month for 36 months. $2,500 due at signing for select 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Electric.
11706 124th Ave Ne, Kirkland, WA 98034
Sales: 425-947-4705
➥ https://www.hyundaiofkirkland.com/mo...irkland-wa.htm

The $79/mo deal was VERY location specific to Northeast or Mid-Atlantic markets. ➥ https://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-deal-of-2019

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Try Hyundai of Kirkland, for a new 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV.
Lease: $109 per month for 36 months. $2,500 due at signing for select 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Electric.
11706 124th Ave Ne, Kirkland, WA 98034
Sales: 425-947-4705
➥ https://www.hyundaiofkirkland.com/mo...irkland-wa.htm

The $79/mo deal was VERY location specific to Northeast or Mid-Atlantic markets. ➥ https://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-deal-of-2019

hyundai of Kirkland was the primary dealer I was talking to . I will check in person to see what the deal is .

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Try Hyundai of Kirkland, for a new 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV.
Lease: $109 per month for 36 months. $2,500 due at signing for select 2019 Hyundai Ioniq EV Electric.
11706 124th Ave Ne, Kirkland, WA 98034
Sales: 425-947-4705
➥ https://www.hyundaiofkirkland.com/mo...irkland-wa.htm

The $79/mo deal was VERY location specific to Northeast or Mid-Atlantic markets. ➥ https://www.greencarreports.com/news...e-deal-of-2019

bet that's just the generic webpage stuff .
Clicked on the link to look at inventory and it says that they don't have any models of that car . But they do have the kona for 349 a month with 4k at signing.
Calling the dealer later

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Which is absolutely ridiculous.

Like I said, not practical to travel cross country.

And define "major routes". How about route 10 in the south? That's a major cross country route. When my boat got hit by a hurricane I drove that route from Los Angeles to Florida in a couple really long days.

Show me how you'd do that in an electric car. Lol

Show me the range, the stops you'd make to charge, where the stops are and exactly how many hours of the trip each charge would eat up as you "stop for lunch"

So I also have to drive hungry while I wait for my car to be ready for a charge? What are the odds of the car being hungry when I'm hungry?

Also, I'm talking about Electric cars, not hybrids. Hybrids are just efficient ICE cars. They are the only practical cars with electric drivetrain options since they can be used properly for groceries and work commuting from a nightly charge AND travel cross country.

Hybrids are awesome. I've spent a fair amount of time driving one.

Just go to Plugshare on your browser and check out the charging facilities yourself and then the Tesla web site will give you lots of information on range. A little searching will bring up many Youtube accounts of long distance journeys made in EVs.

I've just come across this that could be a real game changer.
https://www.fleetowner.com/equipment...ubling-battery

Now he says he has even more reason to be bullish: a prototype electric vehicle cell Nikola says boasts “a record energy density of 1,100 watt-hours per kg on the material level and 500 watt-hours per kg on the production cell level.”