Inboard engines and a changing world

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Sure it will but if you buy one now and expect to do any traveling your going to rent an ICE car to do it.
In truth though the real problem that had to be solved first before automobile travel could become possible was a road network.
It wasn’t fuel availability as a car back then could easily carry extra fuel and refuel a couple of times, can an electric car?
Wife and daughter are in Lanett Al now visiting her Mother and will be in Americus Ga tomorrow with her Mother, and will drive back to Jacksonville tomorrow afternoon / night.
That trip would be impossible in a Tesla or other pure electric and will be for quite sometime. They won’t become viable as the single car for me until I can drive around Mississippi, Alabama, Missouri countryside etc.

Right now if your the type that thinks 5G cell coverage is great, then you May can do with an electric car.

you could always get a range extender for your tesla .
But then that kind of defeats the purpose of getting a pure ev .
Tesla is different you don't get them for ev sake its all about image there .
https://www.carswithcords.net/2016/0...-trailers.html

[a64pilot]

Electric boat propulsion is only viable for boats that return to a Marina almost daily. They are tethered to the plug.
But for those, it ought to be a great boon, who wouldn’t want to slip out of the Marina silently? No oil changes, no raw water impellers, not thru hull, no strainer, no oil changes, no heat exchanger cleanings, no flush and refill antifreeze, no Diesel stink if your downwind, not sounding like you have a lawnmower in the Salon, if you live up North, I assume no Winterizing, who wouldn’t want that?

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by newhaul

you could always get a range extender for your tesla .

But then that kind of defeats the purpose of getting a pure ev .

Tesla is different you don't get them for ev sake its all about image there .

https://www.carswithcords.net/2016/0...-trailers.html

No, the extender would only be for trips, parked the rest of the time, but what does one cost?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Electric boat propulsion is only viable for boats that return to a Marina almost daily. They are tethered to the plug.
But for those, it ought to be a great boon, who wouldn’t want to slip out of the Marina silently? No oil changes, no raw water impellers, not thru hull, no strainer, no oil changes, no heat exchanger cleanings, no flush and refill antifreeze, no Diesel stink if your downwind, not sounding like you have a lawnmower in the Salon, if you live up North, I assume no Winterizing, who wouldn’t want that?

gotta winterize regardless of boat . Getting out long Johns and flannel shirts to go sailing .
My best wind is winter .

[GordMay]

One thing we know, for certain, is that the future will look different than the past or present. We can’t imagine exactly how.
After all, who in 1969, envisioned the Internet, and how it would give birth to instant knowledge (for those who seek it), global connectedness (and personal disconnectedness), and social media stars?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GordMay

One thing we know, for certain, is that the future will look different than the past or present. We can’t imagine exactly how.
After all, who in 1969, envisioned the Internet, and how it would give birth to instant knowledge (for those who seek it), global connectedness (and personal disconnectedness), and social media stars?

you forgot the downfall of society .

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by GordMay

One thing we know, for certain, is that the future will look different than the past or present. We can’t imagine exactly how.
After all, who in 1969, envisioned the Internet, and how it would give birth to instant knowledge (for those who seek it), global connectedness (and personal disconnectedness), and social media stars?

Which makes it somewhat ironic that certain factions wish to impose futuristic solutions upon present society when history shows present day visions of the future are often wildly incorrect when looked back upon in retrospect.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by GordMay

One thing we know, for certain, is that the future will look different than the past or present. We can’t imagine exactly how.
After all, who in 1969, envisioned the Internet, and how it would give birth to instant knowledge (for those who seek it), global connectedness (and personal disconnectedness), and social media stars?

I never saw the whole social media thing coming at all

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Which makes it somewhat ironic that certain factions wish to impose futuristic solutions upon present society when history shows present day visions of the future are often wildly incorrect when looked back upon in retrospect.

There's a difference between imposing a future and addressing a problem. Ignoring a problem is also an imposition.

[Buzzman]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Solar is a pain for utility companies because mid-day they have plenty of production capability to meet demand. The result is govt regulation forces them to buy power they don't need at inflated prices while doing nothing to reduce the base load capability that they must maintain.

So, so wrong. You clearly have no idea how market based energy markets actually work.

Retailers 'bid' for power produced by 'generators'. Lowest price wins.

If wind is cheaper at a point in time, that's what gets bought. Or solar.

So maybe there's excess solar production around midday, making it cheaper than coal or gas at that time of day. Excess production leads to discounts leads to sales.

Ditto, wind is probably cheaper at night.

Base load capability is an historical fiction. It was called that when all power was supplied by steam-driven generators (fired by coal) that took ages to wind up so they left some of them spinning constantly to meet the 'average constant demand', and to supply inertia to counter fluctuating demand.

It was this system that lead to large amounts of unwanted power produced at night, for which the 'off-peak' "market" was *created* in order to entice retail customers to use up that excess generation capacity produced by the constantly spinning generators.

The real issue is voltage balance.

Their must be some inertia in the sytem to 'balance' the fluctuations of PV or wind supply that causes imbalance in the grid's voltage.

This (it has been proven) can be fixed by adding in batteries (like the one in South Australia) or molten-salt batteries, for example. It can also be mitigated by spinning up large flywheels that don't actually generate, but add inertia when and as required.

There are also (under the old-tech model of local grid structure) issues with too much rooftop PV in given local grid areas, so retailers (and grid owners) limit the amount of renewables that can be added into specific geographical areas, so as not to upset voltage balance too much in those areas.

This, too can be fixed, but it costs. Ergo, grid and retailers won't do it unless directed to do so. Hence 'govt intervention' to set targets that must be met, over time, enabling the grid owners to progressively upgrade the infrastructure in order to be able to provide spavce for homeowners to help them meet those targets.

Remember rooftop solar gen doesn't cost the retailers much, as the infrastructure (on roofs) is paid for by the homeowner. All they have to upgrade is the transformers and inertia-balancing stuff.

Nukes obviously don't have the voltage issues, because they are steam-driven turbines that run at grid frequency.

But as has been pointed out above, the nuke waste issue is still unresolved. Storage is not a "solution" it's a band-aid.

But short term, nukes are all that can reliably replace coal gen without major upheavals.

In Oz, the real problem is inertia on the part of govt, which won't come up with a set plan to target emissions and set goals so that grid owners and retailers have some 'certainty' as to what they'll be facing in a year or 5.

Infrastructure investment of this type is costly, long term stuff, and finance is expensive without such sureties.

So in Oz, at present, we're "stuck" due to political "faith" (read: dogma) that refuses to acknowledge we need to move now, not next year.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Electric boat propulsion is only viable for boats that return to a Marina almost daily. They are tethered to the plug.
But for those, it ought to be a great boon, who wouldn’t want to slip out of the Marina silently? No oil changes, no raw water impellers, not thru hull, no strainer, no oil changes, no heat exchanger cleanings, no flush and refill antifreeze, no Diesel stink if your downwind, not sounding like you have a lawnmower in the Salon, if you live up North, I assume no Winterizing, who wouldn’t want that?

And in reality, this is actually the most common type of boat. This and skiffs or center consoles on trailers kept in the backyard.

Small fishing boats and runabouts.

Electric does make a lot of sense for these and most power boats that just go out for the day or hop marina to marina.

If I had a trailerable center console in my back yard, I'd probably go electric just to avoid all the maintenance headaches surrounding outboards and carburators.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And in reality, this is actually the most common type of boat. This and skiffs or center consoles on trailers kept in the backyard.

Small fishing boats and runabouts.

Electric does make a lot of sense for these and most power boats that just go out for the day or hop marina to marina.

If I had a trailerable center console in my back yard, I'd probably go electric just to avoid all the maintenance headaches surrounding outboards and carburators.

outboard are a different critter . You can have your electric I will take the twin evinrude e Tec 2 stroke 250hp that are on the beach tigercat . Your not going from gig harbor to the San Juans for the days fishing with electric outboard .

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Buzzman

So, so wrong. You clearly have no idea how market based energy markets actually work.

Retailers 'bid' for power produced by 'generators'. Lowest price wins.

................

So in Oz, at present, we're "stuck" due to political "faith" (read: dogma) that refuses to acknowledge we need to move now, not next year.

You are describing how market based pricing is SUPPOSED TO WORK.

I'm describing how home solar net metering ACTUALLY WORKS.

Most net metering plans for home based generation guarantee the homeowner can sell their power first and the utility must take it. Result, they produce power that isn't needed and the utility must buy it at inflated prices. The antithesis of market based pricing.

Of course, the batteries being used to cover base load technically work but financially don't. This is where using batteries that already exist can make it viable. If you've already covered the cost of the car batteries as part of the car, the net cost to use those to provide some base load capability can make sense financially as the sales would happen at peak time when the price is high.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

but what does one cost?

It might not be as pretty as the one in the picture:
- $500 for a used enclosed trailer (just bought one and saw small ones were often in this price range).
- $1000 for a 12kw portable generator.

With a weekend to tie down the generator and add some venting to feed air into the generator...I could make one for about $1.5k.

You'd still eat into the battery power with only 15kw but a small aerodynamic car on the freeway is likely only drawing around 30kw, so rough estimate doubles the range.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But what needs to change is people wanting to drive 6,000 lb vehicles around carrying nothing but themselves, and live in McMansions with large windows, etc, etc.

Certainly already happening this side of the pond, with small eco cars being the norm rather than large SUVs which are going out of fashion.

A quick calculation this morning suggests you would have to pay $6.3 for a US gallon petrol in the UK, Europe pretty similar. How does that compare with US prices?

Petrol and diesel which is a little more expensive, priced like that does tend to focus the mind and choice when thinking about the next jalopy.


Pete