Inboard engines and a changing world

[Chotu]

For those than don’t think the world is changing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...s-and-oil/amp/

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Chotu

For those than don’t think the world is changing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmo...s-and-oil/amp/

I really hope it does put the lithium battery market through the roof but it won't have any significant effect on ice cars.

I own one stock in CINR they deal in tronaand it is really important to lithium extraction not to mention just about every everyday product that people use .

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I really hope it does put the lithium battery market through the roof but it won't have any significant effect on ice cars.

I own one stock in CINR they deal in tronaand it is really important to lithium extraction not to mention just about every everyday product that people use .

No effect?


If it costs less to operate than ICE, it’s going to have one hell of an effect. And I’m not even a fan of electric cars (I like to be able to drive cross country).

But even I would get one of these if the numbers add up. So will every business with cars, taxis, ride sharing, potentially car rental places and any intelligent person who doesn’t need to drive more than 300 miles between charging.

I thought the ones before this were over priced. But if it’s less than ICE to operate, ICE is done.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Chotu

No effect?


If it costs less to operate than ICE, it’s going to have one hell of an effect. And I’m not even a fan of electric cars (I like to be able to drive cross country).

But even I would get one of these if the numbers add up. So will every business with cars, taxis, ride sharing, potentially car rental places and any intelligent person who doesn’t need to drive more than 300 miles between charging.

I thought the ones before this were over priced. But if it’s less than ICE to operate, ICE is done.

I said no significant effect not no effect.

And I stand by my statement of no significant effect.

For instance when China removed the EV incentive subsidy the EV market in China almost imploded completely.

As the 7k or thereabouts incentives In America are stopped the ev market will see significant losses in sales numbers.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Chotu

No effect?...


....But if it’s less than ICE to operate, ICE is done.

Internal combustion engines for personal transportation are done, it's just a matter of time.

If taken with their true externalities (not subsidized, pushed under the carpet or deliberately confused or conflated by vested interests), the comprehensive costs for ICE-based personal transportation far outweigh their benefits.

There's no need to fly around the world, or get to work at a mile a minute, or eat fresh apples in the spring in the Northern hemisphere, ad infinitum, or any of a multitude of things that people 'think' (actually, are told) they want.

In fact, a very persuasive argument can be made that these manufactured desires have negative effects completely disproportionate to their supposed positive ones...

[transmitterdan]

Yeah, we don’t need fresh fruit year round, electricity on demand, refrigerated trucks that can run >1,500km without refueling, jet airliners visiting other countries, rockets going to other planets/moons/asteroids. We just need to move back into mud huts and cook freshly killed squirrels on dung fires. That’ll save the planet.

[jimbunyard]

And yet my point (unlike your cartoonishly meaningless one) is still valid.

I'd say the ignorance and logical fallacy repeatedly displayed by you whenever this subject comes up was breathtaking, except we've seen it all before, which lessens the effect.

Perhaps someday you can wean yourself from your pseudo-culturally induced 'wants', enablers and (poor) talking-point suppliers and come up with something of your own, something better than the tired old 'back to the stone age' lament. That is, if your gray matter hasn't been calcified past the point of no return by the aforementioned usual suspects ...

[Jammer]

I've had my electric Chevrolet Bolt for over a year now and 17,000 miles. Works great. So far the only maintenance I've had to do is replace the wiper blades. I anticipate that it will have the lowest TCO of anything I've driven. Range and performance are sufficient for what I do with the only serious range-related frustration being the occasional morning when I realize I've forgotten to plug it in.


It's great never having to go to a gas station.



We're not at the tipping point yet but it will come. The technology is there, it works, it scales, the hard problems have all been solved. In 10 years gasoline cars will be specialty items at the dealership and in 20 years it's going to start to get hard to find a gas station.



Tesla, and to a lesser extent their competition, are driving battery prices down across all chemistries. Wholesale prices are a little over $100 a kwh now and appear likely to decline to less than half that over the next 10 years. These technological improvements and price drops haven't made it into the marine world but they will eventually.


Figure 15 kwh is more or less equivalent to one gallon of diesel tankage in terms of range. Charging infrastructure will also be a factor because existing shore power wiring won't handle the load.


But we're not that far away from the point where banks of reasonable cost, weight, and size can be designed into coastal cruisers and gunkholers.


What will be hard is adapting those boats for Pacific crossings and other situations where a large reserve is called for.

[JimJohnston]

My Nonsuch 30 was converted to an 8 kw electric auxillary and was intended to be fully 'tested' this summer. We set off July 5 on Georgian Bay but the trip was ended with a lightning strike which stopped us in our tracks. Everything that had a wire attached seems to have been affected.

However, in the fifteen days we managed about 200 NM with a combination of leisurely sailing and motoring. In total, I charged the house and propulsion (2 banks) batteries for about fifteen hours overall on a portable Honda generator and once at a marina (overnight).

As an auxillary power source, the electric is wonderful: quiet, ready to go with the push of the throttle, clean and charging up was not too onerous. We need a marina about once per week for pumpout and fresh water anyway, so recharging the batteries at that time was a bonus. I had planned in future to double the battery capacity and install solar and also to use the regen capacity of the motor. But it is all moot now.

[transmitterdan]

Jim,

Sorry you had the misfortune of a rare lightning strike. I guess there was no insurance. Do you know if insurance is available for electric boats?

[JimJohnston]

Hi T...Dan
I hope we have insurance as I am relying on it to effect repairs! When our boat was converted to electric I made a point of notifying my insurer. I don't think electrically powered boats represent any more of a risk than other propulsion systems. Indeed, I would suggest that battery power is safer than say, diesel or especially gasoline.

Apparently lithium ion batteries can be explosive when mixed with water but that marinized lithium batteries are rated for a certain depth for a length of time to make them 'safe'. I can't remember the numbers.

But thanks for thinking of me. Fortunately we survived with no injuries - just a delay in moving forward through life.

[transmitterdan]

Jim,

Please tell us when you get your insurance sorted. It may benefit all of us to hear the results.

[JimJohnston]

Hopefully we will learn soon whether the insurance will consider it a repair or a write off. Depends on the cost of repair

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by JimJohnston

Hopefully we will learn soon whether the insurance will consider it a repair or a write off. Depends on the cost of repair

Depends on value of the boat. If over about 1/3 the value they usually do a write off.
Then you can fix it yourself like the shops but better.

[Ric Sheridan]

In time technology will catch up to the weight versus power consumption. But there is no replacing the instant power you get from putting new fuel in the tank versus waiting for the batteries to charge. I would think the link of propane will be the first to replace gas/diesel before a total electric conversion. IDK but I would assume propane is available in most parts of the globe. Good topic all. Cold fusion is best but then that would cancel even the sailing parting of cruising wouldn't it? West marine has a special on Flux Capacitors this month!