Inboard engines and a changing world

[Sailing Ohm]

Originally Posted by newhaul

True and where did oil come from ?



The problem is for me diesel is the only thing that can get my team driven trucks from florida to seattle without stopping for more than a few hours all the way .

Solo yes can charge during the 8 bunk hours but team is different that truck has to keep rolling . That means diesel fuel.

Well the oil came from the sun also. Most oil/petroleum is degraded plant/algae matter and we all know about photosynthesis.

Just because the tech isn’t there quite yet doesn’t mean it won’t ever be and isn’t worth looking into. Once we can efficient harness and store the power of the sun all other power sources will likely be moot.
Although hydrogen is an interesting, albeit currently dangerous, prospect. I did read that the us navy has a ship powered entirely by the salt water it goes through by separating the hydrogen and using that as fuel which I think is pretty darn cool.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Yes but some areas will always be dependant on liquid fuels. Primarily fossil fuels.

Oil came from plants which stored the solar energy they received from the sun. This happened for about 60M years until about 300M years ago when a bacteria developed that could break down lignin.

In the long run a lot more land cargo will move via electric trains and less by truck. The trucks that continue running will probably carry a smaller engine, a battery and a pantograph to pull power off of an overhead catenary line along major routes.

Water cargo will continue by harnessing available windpower, using smaller engines and steaming at significantly slower speeds. Electro-fuels of some sort will come to predominate.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Sailing Ohm

Well the oil came from the sun also. Most oil/petroleum is degraded plant/algae matter and we all know about photosynthesis.

Just because the tech isn’t there quite yet doesn’t mean it won’t ever be and isn’t worth looking into. Once we can efficient harness and store the power of the sun all other power sources will likely be moot.
Although hydrogen is an interesting, albeit currently dangerous, prospect. I did read that the us navy has a ship powered entirely by the salt water it goes through by separating the hydrogen and using that as fuel which I think is pretty darn cool.

What really makes me say WTH is the lack of smr's in the civilian world considering they are widely used and safely operated every day on us navy ships and subs ( approximately 100 )
Why not ? Afterall they make a ship completely power independent.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by newhaul

The problem is for me diesel is the only thing that can get my team driven trucks from florida to seattle without stopping for more than a few hours all the way .
Solo yes can charge during the 8 bunk hours but team is different that truck has to keep rolling . That means diesel fuel.

... or fast battery swaps. Pull into a truckstop, have a whiz and a coffee while the battery pack is exchanged for a charged one. As long as the battery packs are standardized, and there's some sort of cooperative arrangement between truck-makers and battery vendors, this should be quite possible.

[Adelie]

They aren’t cost effective in commercial service. It’s been tried several times.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

... or fast battery swaps. Pull into a truckstop, have a whiz and a coffee while the battery pack is exchanged for a charged one. As long as the battery packs are standardized, and there's some sort of cooperative arrangement between truck-makers and battery vendors, this should be quite possible.

Catenary power, no efficiency loss thru the battery.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Adelie

They aren’t cost effective in commercial service. It’s been tried several times.

What she said

[Westcliffe01]

Chotu, the only way governments will get people into the EV's is : By heavily taxing fossil fuel. Its already occurring in many parts of the world, especially Europe where the sale price is several times the price in the US and the US already has taxes loaded on it. However, under our new administration, I would not be surprised to see gas and diesel up to $5/gal within the next few years. The people with the gas inboards will be crying. The SUV's will be parked again. Small cars will be commanding well above market prices again. We saw this all at the start of the last recession. People who were commuting to work 40 miles one way with a V8 SUV saw their fuel bill go to $900/month. Lift clubs sprang up overnight and people put up with a lot more inconvenience, especially in winter months. For people who want to cruise, I dont think options are going to change anytime soon. People will just have to travel less based on their financial limitations. Displacement vessels with small diesels will become a lot more expensive and manufacturers will probably inflate the price of small diesels beyond the ridiculous prices already being charged. a 50hp marine diesel is probably as expensive as the 6.4L turbo diesel engine in my truck and that is already outrageously expensive for what it is.... A few politicians and their cronies will make a ton of money and the rest of us will be screwed. Thats not a new story though....

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Catenary power, no efficiency loss thru the battery.

I suppose... but the installation and upkeep would be enormous. Also, since trucks are on rubber wheels, you'd need a two-conductor setup like a trolley bus, which is more than double the complexity, and more problematic at speed. Might as well be trains at that point. As you mentioned earlier.

[flyingfin]

Diesel will be here forever,,,,,,,unless you can harness enough hamsters to run the emergency standby generators at hospitals, water plants, refrigerated warehouses, airports, prisons, grocery stores, etc

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

Diesel will be here forever,,,,,,,unless you can harness enough hamsters to run the emergency standby generators at hospitals, water plants, refrigerated warehouses, airports, prisons, grocery stores, etc

True, but will you as an ordinary citizen be able to afford it for your private travel, as apposed to subsidies for commercial transport, ships or airlines?

Raising fuel taxes slowly but steadily is a win / win for any government. They look good with green environmental credentials, it doesn't cost them anything as the fuel supplier collects the tax and they get to spend it on even more environmental schemes. They can then give themselves a good slap on the back at the international parties. They can also puff up their chests to show how they met the Kyoto, Paris, Montreal protocols and treaties that everyone signed up for. I think the US is just about to join the party again isn't it?

The US has a bit of a problem. You have a love affair with big thirsty cars. You fly everywhere and your railroads aren't electric.

I just think yachts and mobos will be swept up along with privately owned cars in future taxation hikes. No Government is going to allow the press to publish headlines like:

"RICH YACHTIES AND AIR PLANE OWNERS EXEMPT FROM CLEAN AIR TAX"

[nortonscove]

We've created a dependence on oil. Look at the amount of plastic we use. Even our boats are made of it. Secondly we have to see the cost of electric go up or the infrastructure we drive on will suffer greatly. Most road building and maintenance is paid for with a fuel tax. Take away the fuel and we have to find that money elsewhere.

I'm in the camp that wishes we could get off oil but realistically that seems to be a bit down the road. Even with electric we have been informed by the mining consortiums that there simply isn't enough raw materials to keep going in the direction that the pocket liners like Musk have sold us on.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by flyingfin

Diesel will be here forever,,,,,,,unless you can harness enough hamsters to run the emergency standby generators at hospitals, water plants, refrigerated warehouses, airports, prisons, grocery stores, etc

I can see diesel use persisting mainly where energy density is most useful... like small boats. It will still be cost-effective even at a multiple of the current price.

But for standby use... I think the electric grid will become more distributed and smarter, and there will be fewer widespread, long-duration outages, which will reduce the need for individual standby gennies. I also expect that there will be distributed storage on the grid, once the battery technology becomes more cost-effective, fuether improving reliability. You will probably see hospitals etc having their own battery bank instead of a standby diesel generator.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I suppose... but the installation and upkeep would be enormous. Also, since trucks are on rubber wheels, you'd need a two-conductor setup like a trolley bus, which is more than double the complexity, and more problematic at speed. Might as well be trains at that point. As you mentioned earlier.

It will cost a lot to set up but in use the total cost to users will be similar or less than the cost of fuel. Electricity is very cheap compared to diesel for the same amount of energy delivered to the wheels. Added cost of upkeep will absorb some of that cost savings.

Yep, double line system. Already in development. https://insideevs.com/news/440388/ge...-lines-trucks/

I don't see that it is double the complexity. Speed only becomes a problem up around 200mph.

Trains will be taking over a chunk of the passenger market in the medium distances and cargo for medium to long distances with trucks making the final deliveries.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Adelie

Yep, double line system. Already in development. https://insideevs.com/news/440388/ge...-lines-trucks/

Ah. Interesting.