Inboard engines and a changing world

[Chotu]

I still say it’s coming a LOT faster than you think, and that’s bad news for recreational motoring.

So many manufacturers are going all electric. Check out this article about the spiral that is going to take place. There’s a lot of logic here

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57416829.amp

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I still say it’s coming a LOT faster than you think, and that’s bad news for recreational motoring.

So many manufacturers are going all electric. Check out this article about the spiral that is going to take place. There’s a lot of logic here

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57416829.amp

It's just not there and that's the real issue . Won't happen . Governments get way to much tax money from sales of fuel.

[Adelie]

Govt can always find ways to tax something different.

Fuel stations will remain along major and minor highways for at least 40yr to service freight trucks.

[Hesti]

I can not see a need for decisions by owners who already have a boat in the next 2 or 3 years, probably even 5 or more years.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I still say it’s coming a LOT faster than you think, and that’s bad news for recreational motoring.

So many manufacturers are going all electric. Check out this article about the spiral that is going to take place. There’s a lot of logic here

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57416829.amp

If tomorrow, they produced only battery powered electric cars (and could somehow come up with the raw materials to actually build them), it would still be 20yrs to flip the large majority of the fleet over to electric.

Until that happens, gas stations will still be common and if anything gas prices will drop. Keep in mind, gas & diesel are only a small portion of each barrel of oil. Asphalt concrete roads are kind of hard to build without the asphalt...unless they plan to just burn it off, they will still be producing and selling motor fuel.

I'm guessing the average age on this forum is somewhere on the order of 50-60, so 20yrs they will be 70-80 and it won't matter if new boats have electric motors.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If tomorrow, they produced only battery powered electric cars (and could somehow come up with the raw materials to actually build them), it would still be 20yrs to flip the large majority of the fleet over to electric.

Until that happens, gas stations will still be common and if anything gas prices will drop. Keep in mind, gas & diesel are only a small portion of each barrel of oil. Asphalt concrete roads are kind of hard to build without the asphalt...unless they plan to just burn it off, they will still be producing and selling motor fuel.

I'm guessing the average age on this forum is somewhere on the order of 50-60, so 20yrs they will be 70-80 and it won't matter if new boats have electric motors.

You talking boat or sailor?

My boat 57 and if they stop selling diesel tomorrow for engines I switch to home brew bio diesel. Easy to make .

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I still say it’s coming a LOT faster than you think, and that’s bad news for recreational motoring.

So many manufacturers are going all electric. Check out this article about the spiral that is going to take place. There’s a lot of logic here

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57416829.amp

I don’t see it. Think about recreational boating sales. What % are displacement motorboats or sailboats? < 10% probably
There is no electric replacement for the vast majority of boats being produced and sold which are planing hugely inefficient motorboats. Many of these powerboats can easily burn 100++ gallons in a day and there is no way battery tech can do that. So that’s too big of an industry to eliminate …

Cars are different. Since much less fuel required for average daily operation much higher % of market could convert to electric

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by malbert73

I don’t see it. Think about recreational boating sales. What % are displacement motorboats or sailboats? < 10% probably
There is no electric replacement for the vast majority of boats being produced and sold which are planing hugely inefficient motorboats. Many of these powerboats can easily burn 100++ gallons in a day and there is no way battery tech can do that. So that’s too big of an industry to eliminate …

Cars are different. Since much less fuel required for average daily operation much higher % of market could convert to electric

The biggest hurdles are range ( and that's getting close ) of electric vs a tank of gasoline.
And charging times vs refueling times. ( still a long ways to go )

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by newhaul

You talking boat or sailor?

My boat 57 and if they stop selling diesel tomorrow for engines I switch to home brew bio diesel. Easy to make .

Cruising boats in no way drive the petroleum fuel industry. Cruising boats use what's available for the automotive industry with a few modifications. So long as there is a significant market for automotive fuels, you will have access to those fuels for your boat.

As far as home brew...there will be small specialties markets for many decades after the last gas engine rolls off the assembly line. Kind of like, you can still find shops that sell saddles even though, horses stopped being a normal mode of transportation something like 100yrs ago.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Cruising boats in no way drive the petroleum fuel industry. Cruising boats use what's available for the automotive industry with a few modifications. So long as there is a significant market for automotive fuels, you will have access to those fuels for your boat.

As far as home brew...there will be small specialties markets for many decades after the last gas engine rolls off the assembly line. Kind of like, you can still find shops that sell saddles even though, horses stopped being a normal mode of transportation something like 100yrs ago.

Actually more like 70 years but here in port Angeles Washington they still have hitching rings in front of the courthouse and people still use them . But i do agree with you .
My biggest issue is that my diesel furnace won't run on bio diesel It requires actual diesel or kerosene. ( i have tried it )

[geoffa]

Thanks for keeping the story alive. When we get to the price tipping point for storage kwh to about $75/kWh, not even game to mention the chemistry, the market will still be nuanced/chic!
As an electrical engineer I am most supportive of the evolution into a efficient and effective electrical dominance. The vision though will always be dominated by realistic market forces.
I am excited about the future and will boldly predict that the iniatives in the automotive sector will, as they always have, significantly evolve maritime propulsion.

The rhetorical question is do we look at the on land mobility sector, bicycle to long haul freight, through the same lens as a tinny with 20 min max use daily, to super yacht at flank speed for 3 days? If we do then the answer is in these land based solutions!

The big question is how are governments going to tax self generated energy as a propulsion source, be it for boats or on land mobility!!!

[Island Time O25]

As far as taxing electric vehicle use to replace lost fuel taxes the States are pushing taxing by miles driven. Will probably be a part of the annual inspection or some such.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by geoffa

The big question is how are governments going to tax self generated energy as a propulsion source, be it for boats or on land mobility!!!

So without fuel tax you propose a sailing tax?

Also a pedaling tax for bicycles. The government has to tax other forms of energy if fuel is not used.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by newhaul

That is basicly doubling the price of diesel here. Last week i paid $2.15 usd for off road marine diesel. And road diesel is right at the $3 point so doubling truck diesel is not even close to acceptable via taxes.
So just on my boat it will double my heating costs via taxation That is unacceptable.

Would love to see it. You certainly should be punished for consuming fossil fuels for heating. So many other ways to deal with this problem without causing emissions.

I propose a $10 tax per gallon as a starting point increasing by $1 per year. The tax generated would divide evenly by the citizens twice a year like a stimulus payment, so average consumption would actually have no tax which is less fuel tax than we have now. only people with above average consumption would pay more than they do now as they surely should.

[geoffa]

The tax quip was tongue in cheek! The responses indicates the complexity of shifting the energy source.
Covey talks about incremental change compared with paradigm shifts! With politics dominating engineering in this topic I see little chance of a paradigm shift happening that will drive the best outcome for our grandchildren!