Is your boat part of your Doomsday Plan?

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by RPZ

Like I said, inside job.

An "inside job" means that someone on the inside is participating. This was not the case. Knowledgeable, of course. But not inside.

Greg

[a64pilot]

I don't think Stuxnet affected the computers, it got into the Siemens controllers for the centrifuges that were used to refine Uranium, it somehow affected the programming of the controllers that threw the RPM off on the centrifuges, there were no flashing lights, no BITs that indicated controller failure etc, just the centrifuges didn't work and were damaged I think by running at the wrong RPM. It wasn't an obvious problem, that was easily fixed with a new component.
I believe it actually caused actual physical damage to hardware.

Realize of course this is the publicly released data, how accurate that is I have no idea.

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't think Stuxnet affected the computers, it got into the Siemens controllers for the centrifuges that were used to refine Uranium, it somehow affected the programming of the controllers that threw the RPM off on the centrifuges, there were no flushing lights, not BITs that indicated controller failure etc, just the centrifuges didn't work correctly anymore. It wasn't an obvious problem, that was easily fixed with a new component.
I believe it actually caused actual physical damage to hardware

And physical damage is not a virus or hacking issue, it requires direct access.

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

An "inside job" means that someone on the inside is participating. This was not the case. Knowledgeable, of course. But not inside.

Greg

For such a complex system inside knowledge equals inside job.

BTW, if Wired magazine are so smart, ask them to explain how Michael Hasting's Mercedes dumped it's transmission whole, traveled a hundred feet or so, then turned 90 degrees, came to a stop against (did not collide with) a tree, and instantly burst into flame.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't think Stuxnet affected the computers, it got into the Siemens controllers for the centrifuges that were used to refine Uranium, it somehow affected the programming of the controllers that threw the RPM off on the centrifuges, there were no flushing lights, not BITs that indicated controller failure etc, just the centrifuges didn't work correctly anymore. It wasn't an obvious problem, that was easily fixed with a new component.
I believe it actually caused actual physical damage to hardware

Just like in Ukraine, it first infected the attached computers. They in turn reprogrammed the controllers for the centrifuges through the SCADA network, which then failed pseudo-randomly in several different ways. This left the Iranians with the difficult problem of locating the faults. It actually destroyed many centrifuges, and may have caused radiation leaks. Not nice...

Threats at this level are really hard to clean up as they can hide in anything on the network that has firmware and large enough flash memory, and reappear at some later date.

Greg

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Just like in Ukraine, it first infected the attached computers. They in turn reprogrammed the controllers for the centrifuges through the SCADA network, which then failed pseudo-randomly in several different ways. This left the Iranians with the difficult problem of locating the faults. It actually destroyed many centrifuges, and may have caused radiation leaks. Not nice...

Threats at this level are really hard to clean up as they can hide in anything on the network that has firmware and large enough flash memory, and reappear at some later date.

Greg

That should be an easy fix. Not the centrifuges, but the computer issue. Replace hardware, software, with default set replacement. Plug and play.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by RPZ

For such a complex system inside knowledge equals inside job.

Nonsense. By that definition a safecracker is an insider. An insider is someone inside the organization, and there is no indication of that.

BTW, if Wired magazine are so smart, ask them to explain how Michael Hasting's Mercedes dumped it's transmission whole, traveled a hundred feet or so, then turned 90 degrees, came to a stop against (did not collide with) a tree, and instantly burst into flame.

Don't know nor care. That has nothing to do with Doomsday.

Greg

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by RPZ

That should be an easy fix. Not the centrifuges, but the computer issue. Replace hardware, software, with default set replacement. Plug and play.

Yes easy fix, replace hardware.
Like in a controller goes bonkers, turbines overspeed burning out the generators and turbines in Hoover Dam.
Easy fix, just replace the generators and turbines

I'm sure they have spares in the spares closet

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

Nonsense. By that definition a safecracker is an insider. An insider is someone inside the organization, and there is no indication of that.



Don't know nor care. That has nothing to do with Doomsday.

Greg

A safe cracker still requires access.

Wired is a politically orientated magazine. They'll scribble about stuxnet, but not the obvious murder of Michael Hastings. That discredits their "science". Because science only applies when it suits them, whether it is true or false.

[a64pilot]

Who is Michael Hastings, and what has that got to do with Doomsday?
Was he some kind of leader of a world power or something?

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Yes easy fix, replace hardware.
Like in a controller goes bonkers, turbines overspeed burning out the generators and turbines in Hoover Dam.
Easy fix, just replace the generators and turbines

I'm sure they have spares in the spares closet

Yes, if the damage extends to the actual power generation machinery it is another picture. But in an age of governors on passenger and commercial vehicle engines the easy safeguard is governors on these power generation systems that are independent of their general operating control systems.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by RPZ

That should be an easy fix. Not the centrifuges, but the computer issue. Replace hardware, software, with default set replacement. Plug and play.

In the US, with millions of dollars and the ability to buy all of the components (esp the Siemens equipment from Germany) it could be done in some months perhaps. In Iran, under embargo, it set them back a couple of years IIRC. Of course they didn't just buy software for controlling centrifuges - that was embargoed. They had to carefully study the malware, then go back and find when it entered their network, then use the source code from before that time and hand edit the code for the controllers to add in the changes since then. All on new equipment. Everything on the network when they discovered the malware was trashed. That was a huge job.

Yes, things can be repaired in time. But, as the article you didn't read pointed out, the hackers in Ukraine could have destroyed a lot of power equipment (like the centrifuges) had they wished to. In that case it would have taken a very long time to fix. And that is why this is such a serious issue.

Greg

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Who is Michael Hastings, and what has that got to do with Doomsday?
Was he some kind of leader of a world power or something?

Well just google Michael Hastings. View the photos and story. If anyone that can critically think believed it was a mere accident I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell them. It was a stab at Wireless magazine as a credible source, that's all.

The doomsday connection if my posts is that there is no need to be worried about a cyber attack on the grid. It can be easily protected, as long as the attack is not from the inside.

And I do think EMP events are a big threat because the systems are not protected from that at all. Manmade or natural.

[CarinaPDX]

Originally Posted by RPZ

Yes, if the damage extends to the actual power generation machinery it is another picture. But in an age of governors on passenger and commercial vehicle engines the easy safeguard is governors on these power generation systems that are independent of their general operating control systems.

Which is to say, if we take this threat seriously and spend the money to harden our grid's control network we will be better off. Isn't that the whole point that you have been minimizing because it is a "hoax"?

Greg

[RPZ]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

In the US, with millions of dollars and the ability to buy all of the components (esp the Siemens equipment from Germany) it could be done in some months perhaps. In Iran, under embargo, it set them back a couple of years IIRC. Of course they didn't just buy software for controlling centrifuges - that was embargoed. They had to carefully study the malware, then go back and find when it entered their network, then use the source code from before that time and hand edit the code for the controllers to add in the changes since then. All on new equipment. Everything on the network when they discovered the malware was trashed. That was a huge job.

Yes, things can be repaired in time. But, as the article you didn't read pointed out, the hackers in Ukraine could have destroyed a lot of power equipment (like the centrifuges) had they wished to. In that case it would have taken a very long time to fix. And that is why this is such a serious issue.

Greg

And if it was that simple, why was the attack on IRAN and not a U.S. or European power grid? And why was anyone concerned about an attack on Iran?