Jeanne Socrates Oldest Person solo RTW attempt

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Jeanne used this drogue once before, near the Faulkland Islands. From the "S/V Nereida" Facebook page:

I think she later lost that one though. Peter Smith (Rocana Pete) and I helped her get things ready in Stanley before she left. I see some of our handiwork in the photos, such as the reinforced washboard, is still aboard.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Just found this photo of Jeanne's damaged staysail on her blog. Wow! That is a key sail on this voyage. She uses it often. To have this level of damage in the first few days of a voyage is reason enough to restart, whether the skipper is 74 or 24.
Attachment 134690

That damage looks as if the sail had been furled too loosely, or with the sheet lead not bisecting the clew angle.

I've seen this before several times when the wind gets under the leech on a loose sail and starts pulling the furl out.

[Cadence]

I'm glad there are so many second guessers.

[Foolish]

That damage looks as if the sail had been furled too loosely, or with the sheet lead not bisecting the clew angle.

Jeanne tells me that when she heaves to in a big blow, she does not have the foresail out at all. Just the windage from the two furled foresails (jib and staysail) is enough to act as a normal foresail.

Perhaps you are right that the wind got under into the furled staysail. When I was out with her a few days earlier in 35-42 knots of wind, I found that if I furled the staysail from the cockpit, the sheets did not roll around the sail at the clew and hold it completely in place, but rather below that on the roll. And of course in 50+ knots of wind, everything is going to come loose at some point. Do furling sail designers even build this into their thinking when they design a system?

She likes to stay in the cockpit in this weather and I doubt she would be able to reach up and secure the clew in any case. It was even difficult for me at the dock. I have never sailed in that kind of wind. It's hard to imagine going to the bow to manhandle a jib in 30 foot seas and 50 knot winds.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Jeanne tells me that when she heaves to in a big blow, she does not have the foresail out at all. Just the windage from the two furled foresails (jib and staysail) is enough to act as a normal foresail.

Perhaps you are right that the wind got under into the furled staysail. When I was out with her a few days earlier in 35-42 knots of wind, I found that if I furled the staysail from the cockpit, the sheets did not roll around the sail at the clew and hold it completely in place, but rather below that on the roll. And of course in 50+ knots of wind, everything is going to come loose at some point. Do furling sail designers even build this into their thinking when they design a system?

She likes to stay in the cockpit in this weather and I doubt she would be able to reach up and secure the clew in any case. It was even difficult for me at the dock. I have never sailed in that kind of wind. It's hard to imagine going to the bow to manhandle a jib in 30 foot seas and 50 knot winds.

Those conditions are fairly routine in these parts. Yes it is very important that the sheets wrap around the furled sail, at least three times. The damage often starts when the wind gets under the loose furl and starts to flog the leech. The clew ring hammers the sail against the foil and will batter a hole in as in the photo in minutes sometimes.

Yep huge windage on furled headsails, often results in no need to show head sail when hove-to in conditions over 35 knots.

[uncle stinkybob]

Having never used a drogue, but seeing a possible need for one in the future. These series type drogues seem delicate at best, why not a more traditional single chute type? or is this so complicated to answer it needs it's own thread?

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

Have you read the thread and looked at the photos. Not much, if any, more analysis is needed. To sum up.

The cones were not properly hemmed (fairly typical when you look at the specs online).
It seems a lot of the offerings from commercial producers are seen as single-use products. (This one survived the single use and was still functioning).

Summary if you are buying a series drogue make sure both ends of the cone are hemmed, just like you would any other fabric product that is mean to be used.

There was a shackle failure that we don't know much (well anything) about.

Knowing Jeanne and how she uses her drogues she definitely didn't deploy it late. She deploys drogues in conditions where many would keep sailing. She knows her limits I guess and does things her way.

Improperly hemmed at both ends? Maybe. But that alone provides no useful information. What was the impropriety? I cannot tell from the photos. Stitch type. Could be. Thread quality? Possible Maybe tape and/or heat sealing needed in addition? Material quality? Single use intent (I do doubt it, but cannot be sure)? Early deployment rather than late? I have no way of knowing.

I will stick with my original statement, at least until someone with a more thorough approach provides information.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

Improperly hemmed at both ends? Maybe. But that alone provides no useful information. What was the impropriety?

Reading everything is your friend! Turned over once and straight stitched is what she said. That is improperly hemmed.

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

Having never used a drogue, but seeing a possible need for one in the future. These series type drogues seem delicate at best, why not a more traditional single chute type? or is this so complicated to answer it needs it's own thread?

It needs and does indeed have its own books.. just google for such topics as drag device tests, drag device database, drogue device comparison etc.. it'll keep you busy for weeks

[Foolish]

These series type drogues seem delicate at best, why not a more traditional single chute type?

Most of the current thinking is that the series drogue is a better option. I did some research for my book and there are a number of reasons. A single large drogue means a single point of failure. With the series many of the cones can fail and the thing still works. Go to the source to see a lot of info. Jordan Series Drogue I guess that in this case she just needed a better built drogue. She certainly understands that.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by uncle stinkybob

Having never used a drogue, but seeing a possible need for one in the future. These series type drogues seem delicate at best, why not a more traditional single chute type? or is this so complicated to answer it needs it's own thread?

Hi Uncle, I think you are describing a "para-anchor" when you say "chute" which would be used off the bow as a sea anchor, meant to hold the boat fairly still, while the drogue is deployed from the stern to slow the boat down in high winds and keep the stern held back from trying to run away when surfing down a wave. Victor Shane has a good site:
Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

Reading everything is your friend! Turned over once and straight stitched is what she said. That is improperly hemmed.

If you think that is a sufficient answer to the possibilities, your trieme is short a few oars. I am not attacking either your friend or her sailing (God, I wish I had her stamina, with her sailing experience and knowledge) so there is no need to defend her. If there is a problem, and it seems there is, in order to correct it as much information as possible is desirable, and information means detail. Real detail, not superficial information. Just as an example, it is at least possible (if not probable) that the stitching was insufficiently tight, and so on down the tine. Let's strive for hard facts.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

It needs and does indeed have its own books.. just google for such topics as drag device tests, drag device database, drogue device comparison etc.. it'll keep you busy for weeks

I bought a boat that had a tire on board. He said it was their drogue? May have worked since they had been cruising for 10 or 12 years. Its a fish habitat in the Gulf of Mexico i

[Littlechay]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

If you think that is a sufficient answer to the possibilities, your trieme is short a few oars. I am not attacking either your friend or her sailing (God, I wish I had her stamina, with her sailing experience and knowledge) so there is no need to defend her. If there is a problem, and it seems there is, in order to correct it as much information as possible is desirable, and information means detail. Real detail, not superficial information. Just as an example, it is at least possible (if not probable) that the stitching was insufficiently tight, and so on down the tine. Let's strive for hard facts.

Why don't you read what I write, along with what everybody else writes and you would have all the facts that you need. It doesn't need to be micro analysed; all that work has been done ad infinitum. Just make the dammed things properly and they work... don't reinvent the wheel. Don't be so dammed anal.

I met the lady in question a couple of times. She's not my friend I'm not defending her, not attacking her either.. I do think she is can short of a six-pack but then so are a lot of us

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Littlechay

I think she later lost that one though. Peter Smith (Rocana Pete) and I helped her get things ready in Stanley before she left. I see some of our handiwork in the photos, such as the reinforced washboard, is still aboard.

You tell me to read! You claim bragging rights, but later deny she is a friend. Pssssh. No more conversation with you. You sound like a Judas. Reply if you must, but I will ignore you. I do hope she has real friends to defend her, although IMVHO no defense is needed.