Jeanne Socrates Oldest Person solo RTW attempt

[Foolish]

Here is a photo of her jordan series drogue. You can see how frayed it is after only one storm. Our thoughts are that it was hemmed inside the cone, where all the stress is. And it was hemmed with a straight stitch; it should have been a zig zag stitch.


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[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Here is a photo of her jordan series drogue. You can see how frayed it is after only one storm. Our thoughts are that it was hemmed inside the cone, where all the stress is. And it was hemmed with a straight stitch; it should have been a zig zag stitch.

If the material is nylon, as it could be, it could be enough to heat seal it.

How much force do you expect on such a small cone?

If you want to hem it, which is a good choice to make it last longer, the stitch is OK to be straight. Hemming removes most of the stretch from the edge and the thread will not cut the cloth.

Hemming on the inside (facing the stress) is also OK - look at your clothes - are they hemmed inside or outside from the body? The body to the hemmed clothes is what water is to the cones.

These are small cones, loads are small.

Where nylon stuff frays it is mostly the builder used scissors where they should be cutting with a knife.

I must be misreading your thoughts. If so, pls accept apologies for quoting your post.

BTW Building in nylon you can also cut with scissors then hem with permanent sticky-back (the one that stitch-less kites are build with).

Maybe Ms. Socrates did not want a kit to last ages. Normally you will not be using the drogue too much if you want to sail rtw before you run out of supplies. ;-)

Regards,
b.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Here is a photo of her jordan series drogue. You can see how frayed it is after only one storm. Our thoughts are that it was hemmed inside the cone, where all the stress is. And it was hemmed with a straight stitch; it should have been a zig zag stitch.


Attachment 134424

My series drogue has similar fraying on all the cones nearest the boat end, and almost no wear on the cones at the far end. I have a few theorys on why, but it would interesting to hear if the same pattern of wear shows on her series drogue?

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[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Here is a photo of her jordan series drogue. You can see how frayed it is after only one storm. Our thoughts are that it was hemmed inside the cone, where all the stress is. And it was hemmed with a straight stitch; it should have been a zig zag stitch.


Attachment 134424

Hard to tell. Is there webbing on leading edge and seams?

[Foolish]

If the material is nylon, as it could be, it could be enough to heat seal it.

How much force do you expect on such a small cone?

If you want to hem it, which is a good choice to make it last longer, the stitch is OK to be straight. Hemming removes most of the stretch from the edge and the thread will not cut the cloth.

Jeanne described that the drogue line would slacken and then snap tight. Even though the individual cones are small, this would still be enough to stretch the cones near the boat. Even a small amount of stretching would break the thread of a straight stitch. This is why sails are sewn with a zigzag stitch. I doubt that heat sealing the edge would be enough because the stretching would be enough to break that apart. A good hem would go a long way to solve the problem.

[JPA Cate]

Foolish, I'm with you on that call. We made a short series drogue for our dinghy to keep it from surfing down waves and crashing into the mother boat when it was being towed. Cut the cones with the hot knife, but did not hem them. Did not last long. Then went to Herculon (pvc cloth) for the cones. Those lasted. You wouldn't want them for a proper JSD because of the bulk.

I think--but am not certain--that making a doubled hem, sewn with a zig zag stitch would help them hold up. CAUTION: remember to enlarge the cone enough for the double hem, so they come out the correct finished size!

Incidentally, "mikereed" started a thread about using a JSD for catamarans a while back, and someone reported that they are made only as a one use item. Therefore, I would think that since the greatest wear seems to occur close to the boat, that if you make your own, make up at least 20 spare cones, and experiment, try sistering the cones' mouths' with nylon webbing, or bind the edges of the first 20, it will ad bulk, but might make them a many storm item vs. a single one. It would be an interesting experiment to make, if you sew.

Ann

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Here is a photo of her jordan series drogue. You can see how frayed it is after only one storm. Our thoughts are that it was hemmed inside the cone, where all the stress is. And it was hemmed with a straight stitch; it should have been a zig zag stitch.


Attachment 134424

Where did she get it from? I know there are several different people producing them

[tkeithlu]

Loneliness. That's a psychological variable. Some people don't experience it. I've never been lonely, but that's a result of a peculiarly isolated childhood, and I understand other people feeling that need. It's sort of like talking to yourself. If you're an interesting person with something to say, why not have a conversation with yourself? I doubt that she feels at all deprived.

[Jim Cate]

My thoughts on the destruction of cones in the JSD:

Our experience with the dinghy drogue that Ann mentioned above showed that the cones were damaged when they were dragged through the water at 6-8 knots. in normal use, the JSD limits the boat speed to much less than that, and the cones survive pretty well.

In situations where the cones nearest the boat are damaged, I reason that it is due to stretch in the drogue main rope allowing higher velocity through the water for those cones, the stretch being greater at the forward end of the string. Reinforcing the leading edge of the most forward cones is one way of avoiding the damage, but another would be to use Dyneema for the main drogue construction.This would eliminate the stretch and the increased velocity.

Some time ago I discussed Dyneema construction with the folks at Ace (the main vendor for JSD) and they said they offered that construction in their kits or completed units, and that it worked well and minimized the bulk of the stored drogue. We did not discuss the benefits in terms of cone wear at that time, but it would be interesting to pulse them on the subject now. If I were buying or building one at this time, I'd be using Dyneema for sure.

Jim

[Paul Elliott]

Here is a good story and interview with Jeanne after her return to Victoria for repairs. It also contains some good images of the damaged series drogue:

"Things were looking pretty horrible," sailor says after storm damage forces re-start for record solo effort | CHEK

[Snowpetrel]

I think stretch of the forward section of drogue line is one cause, another is the boat yawing and pulling the cones sideways through the water, and yet another possibility is the greater effects of wave action on the cones near the boat that are also nearer the surface. Probably all three play a role. If I was building one I'd think about making the first third of the cones from some much tougher material, the middle third hemmed, and the last third unhemmed, and possibly using dyneema for the warp.

I would love to hear if Jeanne's JSD had the same wear pattern on only the forward cones?

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[Snowpetrel]

Looks like her drogue has a dyneema main line, so thats stretch out of the equation. http://www.yachtingworld.com/feature...s-drogue-63180

A good news report and some excellant video of Jeane and the damaged drogue here. One tough person, I look forward to following her voyage and watching her sail south of Tassie.

http://www.cheknews.ca/things-lookin...effort-236198/


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[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

I think stretch of the forward section of drogue line is one cause, another is the boat yawing and pulling the cones sideways through the water, and yet another possibility is the greater effects of wave action on the cones near the boat that are also nearer the surface. Probably all three play a role. If I was building one I'd think about making the first third of the cones from some much tougher material, the middle third hemmed, and the last third unhemmed, and possibly using dyneema for the warp.

I would love to hear if Jeanne's JSD had the same wear pattern on only the forward cones?

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G'Day Ben,

Interesting comments! Being that I have never owned or used a JSD in anger (other than our tiny towing drogue), I lack personal experience with o ne, thus relegating myself to the famous CF "armchair sailor" category! However, i thought that in use the JSD pretty much eliminated yawing... is that not so? But your thoughts about greater wave action near the surface certainly could be valid.

Anyhow, I reckon your idea about varying the degree of "toughness" of the cones as a function of position along the drogue makes good sense to me. If i were to build one, I'd sure look into that. And using Dyneema seems a very good plan: less stretch, less volume, better chafe resistance, not that much more expensive... what's not to like!!

Jim

[Snowpetrel]

Got to be honest be and admit to being an armchair Series Drogue user myself. I have used single element drogues a few times in anger. My Series Drogue came with Snow Petrel when I bought her. I beleive she rode out the queens birthday storm with a previous owner, and the homemade Series Drogue was used, but shows heavy fraying on the forward cones. At same stage I need to extend it for Snowpetrel II, hence the interest.

[Pete7]

Folks, Jeanne is a member on CF. She hasn't posted probably because she is rather busy doing stuff most of us only read about