Jib telltale questions

[lindabarzini]

1) On my jib, I had the top two sets of telltales horizontal, but I couldn't get the bottom ones. Is this just a factor of wind velocities at different heights and unavoidable? If this can't be fixed by trimming the headsail, can this be improved by moving the jib car?


2) What does it mean when the telltales go from horizon to straight up repeatedly?

[barnakiel]

Try twisting the sail somewhat.

Going upwind you should be able to manage most if not all the woolies streamed.

The more angle you sail, the more difficult the job. Up till impossible (broad and running).

b.

[44'cruisingcat]

2 is probably caused by the boat pitching in waves, momentarily changing the apparent wind angle.


1 is most likely addressable to some extent by moving the jib car.


Most production boat sheeting systems are basically set up for close hauled sailing. For reaching, especially deep reaching, the sheeting angles will be too narrow. So if you get the middle of the sail trimmed right, the top of the sail may be undertrimmed, the bottom overtrimmed. You can improve this by barber hauling to pull the clew out and down, or by using a pole.

[Don C L]

Sounds like the lead (car) needs to be moved forward a bit to take the twist out of it. The ideal is to have the whole leading edge of the wing stalling at the same time (unless you are twisting for some reason.) As long as the sail is not too old and blown out, this should be straightened out easily. Also, it is good not to have the tell-tales too close to the luff.
The tell-tale going up repeatedly thing is that there is not a consistent flow of air over the tell-tale so that part of the sail is not at the correct angle of attack, again probably due to a twist that a lead adjustment should correct. I am guessing here you mean one tell-tale is going up and down on the inside of the sail, but on the outside it is not, and at the same time the tell-tales above, both, are being blown straight back, is that right?

[Stumble]

1) Which lower is breaking? The car needs to move opposite directions depending on if the inside or outside is breaking first.

2) which tell tale is breaking inside or outside? Either way it means you are just on the edge of stalling.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by lindabarzini

1) On my jib, I had the top two sets of telltales horizontal, but I couldn't get the bottom ones. Is this just a factor of wind velocities at different heights and unavoidable? If this can't be fixed by trimming the headsail, can this be improved by moving the jib car?


2) What does it mean when the telltales go from horizon to straight up repeatedly?

2. It just means you are sailing closer to the wind than the telltale says is optimum, but don't get to caught up in telltales

After a few hundred hours sailing your boat, your will learn to "feel" when the boat is performing well. It took me years but on one of my beach cats, I learned to hike out forward of the front beam and sail with the jib telltales pointing mostly up and the boat was outpointing maybe the other 30 boats in the race and I was still at the same speed. This against quality racers in Panama City, Ft Walton Beach, Pensacola, and Ocean Springs, MS

Every boat is different as is telltale placement and sail make. You just have to learn your boat, sails, telltales etc........telltales give you ballpark as far as trim goes, feel gives you the rest or instruments these days. This from a racer. not many cruisers get to fine tune like racers that have lined up and sailed against 20-30 boats exactly like their own or very similar

You can even use your gps etc to check speed. We didn't have instruments onboard back in the day so we learned to sail fast by feel and how we were doing relative to the other 20-30 boats we were racing that were identical to each other only difference being skipper and setup

Also, if the wind is really light, sail by using the upper most telltales on your boat....

Wind gusts will also move the telltales up or down depending until you learn to anticipate by watching the wind on the water and steer the boat accordingly just before the gust hits. This is different going upwind vs going downwind with spinnaker

[thomm225]

I'm only seeing main leech telltales on these boats........must be a lot of feel happening And I may have seen a set on a jib lower down

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhe6vu2NZck

[Snore]

Originally Posted by lindabarzini

1) On my jib, I had the top two sets of telltales horizontal, but I couldn't get the bottom ones. Is this just a factor of wind velocities at different heights and unavoidable? If this can't be fixed by trimming the headsail, can this be improved by moving the jib car?





2) What does it mean when the telltales go from horizon to straight up repeatedly?

There should be telltales on the both sides of the sail. Is it the windward or leeward telltale that is fluttering? Also how far is the most forward telltale from the luff?

What is the frequency of the telltales going vertical? Is it related to the boats motion over waves? Are you holding the same awa? Or are you holding a course and the wind is backing or veering? Or as most of us did as noobies you were having a hard time holding a course.

Learning sail trim using the autopilot takes one variable out of the equation.


Sent from my iPhone- please forgive autocorrect errors.

[arsenelupiga]

After 2 years and over 1500 NM, I can now fly all jib telltales. Every time I have improved my trim, polars build had to restart. Still couple of things to test out.

Barber hauler is a must, even for windward.

Not any racer at all but like to set sails to work well.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Most production boat sheeting systems are basically set up for close hauled sailing. For reaching, especially deep reaching, the sheeting angles will be too narrow. So if you get the middle of the sail trimmed right, the top of the sail may be undertrimmed, the bottom overtrimmed. You can improve this by barber hauling to pull the clew out and down, or by using a pole.

Always knew about barber haulers in general but as a laid back cruiser never got around to using one. The more I learn the more I think I will add this to my sail trim arsenal in the future however, you mention using a barber hauler to pull the clew out and down????

By out you mean away from the centerline of the boat? If so, to what does one attach a line that is outboard of the clew to pull it out?

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Always knew about barber haulers in general but as a laid back cruiser never got around to using one. The more I learn the more I think I will add this to my sail trim arsenal in the future however, you mention using a barber hauler to pull the clew out and down????

By out you mean away from the centerline of the boat? If so, to what does one attach a line that is outboard of the clew to pull it out?

This is how we got the jib sheet outboard on a Nauticat 37. We used the block for the spinnaker guy. You could attach a block to a mid ship cleat.

I have also used the mid ship cleat without a block on a catamaran to get the sheet outboard.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by jackdale

This is how we got the jib sheet outboard on a Nauticat 37. We used the block for the spinnaker guy. You could attach a block to a mid ship cleat.

I have also used the mid ship cleat without a block on a catamaran to get the sheet outboard.

OK, barber hauler to move the clew outboard is for boats with the jib track inboard. My boat the track is on the toerail so I'm already outboard. I'll mainly be trying to haul the clew more inboard when I want to point a little higher.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by skipmac

OK, barber hauler to move the clew outboard is for boats with the jib track inboard. My boat the track is on the toerail so I'm already outboard. I'll mainly be trying to haul the clew more inboard when I want to point a little higher.

Just tie a line to the clew and pull the clew inboard. Attach to a coach roof winch.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Just tie a line to the clew and pull the clew inboard. Attach to a coach roof winch.

I got that part. Hauling a clew inboard is obvious, I just didn't know how to haul a clew outboard but wasn't thinking about boats with the track so far inboard.

On my boat to haul the clew outboard I would have to use a skyhook but was waiting for the new model to come out before buying.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by skipmac

On my boat to haul the clew outboard I would have to use a skyhook but was waiting for the new model to come out before buying.

Run the sheet outside of the lifelines.