just wondering about liability release

[roverhi]

Had a friend who regularly took people out on his trimaran that he met through his business. He always had them sign a waiver. He had one guest who refused to listen to instructions, stood up when told to sit down and got hit by the boom breaking his nose. Sure enough, a few weeks later a bottom feeding scum lawyer showed up trying to get him to pay damages over and above the hospital bills which were covered by his boat's insurance. His attorney showed the scumbag the release and nothing more was heard from him.

Don't know if they work in all cases but it did in this one.

[W3GAC]

Not a lawyer. Brother & I operated a very large recreational dive shop in St Thomas (US laws) with mostly contracts with cruise ships/ hotels... 30% walk-ins. We were required to have passengers sign waivers BEFORE PASSENGERS LEFT THE SHIP/ hotel (Walk-ins outside dive shop , away from others on the tour. Seems one of the easiest ways to get a waiver thrown out is waiting to 'spring' the waiver once off the ship in a crowd of others where the customer/ guests feels embarrassment/ pressure to sign. Worse of all is waiting until they are on the diveboat (or your sailboat) we were told and really feeling trapped/ forced to sign or... swim to shore.

[thinwater]

If it struck me a certain person, by personality, might sue, I wouldn't take them out. Period.

That said, I carry libility insurance, including bodily harm; I could do something dumb, and a court could blame me for a slippery deck or bad weather.

[John Oz]

If you stay at a marina in Queensland, Australia, you will have to sign a waiver and so I follow suit and everyone sailing on my boat has to sign an "Agreement to Hold Harmless" if it is worthless then what is the problem signing it just to make me happy.

[marlin driver]

Originally Posted by wandering rober

It would be about the same , driving your neighbor downtown in your auto , would you get a signed waiver !

Ditto. If you have your friends sign a waiver to ride in your car, then you should do that on your boat also.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by marlin driver

Ditto. If you have your friends sign a waiver to ride in your car, then you should do that on your boat also.

I took it as a for profit idea. If you charged your neighbor you are a taxi. Doing it non profit sounds like an admirable idea for profit folly.

[jrbogie]

nobody can release you from liability. a court determines who is liable. this question is kinda/sorta like asking a lady to release you from fatherhood if the condom breaks.

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by roverhi

Had a friend who regularly took people out on his trimaran that he met through his business. He always had them sign a waiver. He had one guest who refused to listen to instructions, stood up when told to sit down and got hit by the boom breaking his nose. Sure enough, a few weeks later a bottom feeding scum lawyer showed up trying to get him to pay damages over and above the hospital bills which were covered by his boat's insurance. His attorney showed the scumbag the release and nothing more was heard from him.

Don't know if they work in all cases but it did in this one.

ain't buyin'. first, why would he need his attorney to show the scumbag lawyer the release? secondly, scumbag lawyers don't just show up, they file for damages in court which brings thirdly, unless he's been served notice that he's being sued, stories like this are just stories like this that nobody in their right mind would pay an attorney to get involved. thinkin' your friend is simply trying to explain away his paranoia.

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The whole question strikes me as rather sad. Maybe it’s b/c I don’t take guests out, I take friends. And no friend of mine would sue me if they injured themselves due to their own actions...

I think mostly it's your friend's insurer who might sue you, and your friend doesn't get to tell them not to. At least in the USA .. it's probably a non-issue in the rest of the civilized world, since health needs (injuries) are taken care of using a different system, or so I'm told. Those in-house lawyers for American private insurance companies incur little marginal cost to come after you, and often get a settlement to defer some of the cost of the claim failed by your friend.

I'm not a lawyer nor an insurance adjuster. This is how several of each once explained it to me, and might be utter BS.

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

I think mostly it's your friend's insurer who might sue you, and your friend doesn't get to tell them not to. At least in the USA .. it's probably a non-issue in the rest of the civilized world, since health needs (injuries) are taken care of using a different system, or so I'm told.

Yes. Most of the civilized first world has free public health care, including here in Canada. We all feel sorry for Americans.

[belizesailor]

Are you refering to actual non paying guest or a "guest"...who is in reality a paying passenger?

For paying passengers in the USA, absolutely, and it is quite common.

For an actual recreational guest, not a common practice.

Also note, most such liability waivers are barely worth the paper they are printed on.

[Cottontop]

The enforceability of releases is a state law question, so there are 50 answers.

But the starting point is that at least 45 states will enforce a well-written release.

Are there exceptions? Yup, loads of them. Doctors and lawyers will not be released from malpractice. Some states will not enforce releases signed by minors or by parents on behalf of minors (but others will). Releases in some other circumstances are found to violate public policy. A spouse or child of an injured party may have an independent right to sue, even if the injured party signed a release (but in some states, a spouse is bound by the release). Unequal bargaining power can affect enforceability.

I would never ask a guest in my house, car or boat to sign a release, but if someone asks you to sign one, you should not blithely assume it will be unenforceable.

[Lake-Effect]

Always do a Safety briefing on board before the outing. I do this and keep it informative and lighthearted.

Yup. And we all wear lifejackets. Plus normal liability insurance.

(Disclaimer - Canada)

Regarding the aforementioned trimaran & a release form ... it's possible that the insurance co or the person's own lawyer gave a separate suit a half-hearted try, in case the receiver wasn't too bright. As soon as there was pushback (release or not) they crumbled. I suspect that might explain it.

I was rearended (not too hard - just a bent rear bumper) many years ago, and my truck was pushed into the car ahead. The car ahead tried to claim whiplash on me, and they sent me a separate letter threatening to sue. I passed the letter to my insurer... I never heard about it again.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

I think mostly it's your friend's insurer who might sue you, and your friend doesn't get to tell them not to. At least in the USA .. it's probably a non-issue in the rest of the civilized world, since health needs (injuries) are taken care of using a different system, or so I'm told. Those in-house lawyers for American private insurance companies incur little marginal cost to come after you, and often get a settlement to defer some of the cost of the claim failed by your friend.



I'm not a lawyer nor an insurance adjuster. This is how several of each once explained it to me, and might be utter BS.

Makes me doubly sad Caribbeachbum. It's no wonder the US healthcare system is twice as costly as the next nearest OECD country (Canada), yet the outcomes are only fair-to-middlin.

[Cadence]

I believe sometimes insurance companies just pay off because it is cheaper than going through litigation. The scumbag attorney plays on that. Write a letter and get a third of the take. Write enough letters and your wealthy. I forgot the adverting, in an accident call, Gorge or Bill at some unique phone no. 333 3333.

The US needs tort reform.