Keeping a boat on the eastern seaboard

[JordanH]

Hi folks,
I'm a Canadian, living in Canada, considering the purchase of a boat that is in the US. I'd like to keep the boat in the US or 2-5 years as I prepare for a long trip. Although I'd like to bring the boat home, there are some challenges; It is too long for the rules of my existing yacht club, the sales taxes add another 15%, the tarriff on the boat is another ~10%. So 25% of the boat cost could be saved or deferred if I don't bring it home. (less local sales tax of course).


So... since I don't know the east coast at all, I'm interested in suggestions on location for where to keep a boat on the eastern seaboard. Suggestions on general location and/or specific marinas would be great as I'll be doing my research on costs. Any predictions or ballparks for a year of dockage/storage would be interesting to see as well; i.e. I'm curious to see how close people's estimations are to reality.



Some general background...
1. I'll probably use the boat 2-4 months of the year in water, and prefer storage for 6-10 months on the hard. This will last for 2-4 years as I outfit the boat for a sabbatical trip around the Atlantic.

2. The boats I'm considering are ~38-43 feet, but some have a bowsprit that takes the boats up to 53' LOA. So price would be based on a 46-53' LOA. (Anything shorter and it comes home)
3. Insurance requirements, I think, may require that the boat is north of 40degrees, but I have family in Florida so I'd be willing to consider any part of the eastern seaboard.
4. I'm a member of a yacht club up north and would be willing to do the same down south if it's more cost-effective than a generic marina.

5. A dock is preferred, but moorings would be fine as well.
6. I have no pre-conceived biases to which state would be best so anywhere on the east coast is equally fair game.
7. I'll be considering the cost of local taxes in the equation as well, as I assume I'll have to pay them given the time the boat would be in the US.



Where would you choose to keep it?



Your opinions and experiences are valued as always.
Cheers,
J.

[Shrew]

Vessel Sales Tax by State:

New Hampshire: $10.00 -1,1761.40 (Size and Propulsion dependent)

Rhode Island: $0.00
Delaware: $0.00
District of Columbia: $0.00

[Tin Tin]

Not a major issue but if you get a yacht with air draft of < 65ft you open up many opportunities for storing/mooring and safer ICW passage if the ocean is a bit wild - so may be a ketch with two shorter masts but similar sail area as a sloop.

[marcjsmith]

Florida give you access to the Caribbean... but you gotta worry about hurricanes which could work. sail in the winter, and go on the hard during hurricane season.

from a summer cruising POV I'd then look a far bit north to the Chesapeake Bay you'd have 8-10 months of sailing/cruising/gunkholing, ect

I'm paying 3200, (plus electric) for 12 month slip south of annapolis for my 38' moody. on hard storage is 300 mo plus lift/launch fees at a nearby yard.

[mako]

OP, if you register the boat in Canada but don't import it, do you still have to pay the total of 25% taxes, or do they not apply as long as offshore?

Then you just need to go about obtaining a cruising permit (good for one year), sail across to The Bahamas annually, then bring it back into the US on a new permit.

If you expect to document the boat in the US then you'll need a citizen to own it (Florida relative).

BTW I feel your pain. I'm in discussions to build a new boat in China but will have to register it offshore, then cruise in my own home waters on a permit as well. Otherwise would be subject to 30% duties.

[donradcliffe]

Further north, the seasons are shorter, but the summers are nicer. Further south, its too hot to enjoy summer. Marina costs are high in the northeast until you get to Maine, high in Florida, and lower in the Carolinas and Southern Chesapeake. The best plan would be to move the boat twice a year.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Would you be flying to and from Canada or driving? This could make a bit of difference as the location to airports could be a fairly long drive to sailing areas. If driving, a close proximity to I-95 would be better.
Certain areas of the Chesapeake has both proximities within reason but other areas of the Bay can be a 2-3 hour drive to an international airport or a route to I-95. South Carolina has decent proximity but the sailing grounds are limited as is Georgia. North Carolina isn't too bad but the distance to an airport can be far and the sailing is OK but the water gets real skinny in a large part of the sounds. Florida's East coast has only ocean sailing for day sails but it's close to the Bahamas which is great and then there's the hurricanes.
Given the factors, the Chesapeake may offer what you are looking for.

[Tortuga's Lie]

Another thing to consider is that some states may have personal property taxes on boats, which is paid annually based on a percentage of the boats valuation. Virginia allows for this but some counties do not tax boats, so it's location dependent in Virginia.
Also, Virginia has a 5% sales tax with a maximum of $2000 (or at least it was this way a couple of years ago)

[mako]

True about the taxes for US documented boats but not applicable to foreign flagged vessels. Even the 60 day limits in Washington and California aren’t applicable, which probably pisses off a lot of government bean-counters

[Reeve21]

Long Island sound and southern New England are great cruising grounds. Lots of well protected harbors and anchoring is still possible in many of them. The season is short, but you don’t need air-conditioning like areas further to the south. It’s not cheap. A slip would run you $100-$150 a foot per season, and winter storage on the hard is approaching $60 a foot. You can decrease those cost substantially by going on a mooring and/or joining a yacht club.

[chris mac]

I'm Canadian as well, but pretty much live aboard 8-10 months a year. So I can offer advice on some of your questions.
You didn't mention what time of year you plan to use the boat. If summer, I would recommend long island sound and north, with the option of going to Nova Scotia to reset your cruising permit.
If spring and fall, I would suggest the Chesapeake. Great cruising, lots of back creek anchorages and towns to explore. The Norfolk CBP office would be your best bet on finding out legalities of keeping the boat stateside for more than a year.
If winter will be your time on the boat then Florida or Georgia would be best. I'm sitting aboard in green cove springs right now, and there are many many other Canadian boats here. Great winter weather and Bahamas is very close.
I would look into gulf of mexico too, but I have no first hand experience there.
As for insurance, the only two real options that I have found(as an Albertan) are skippers plan from Gallagher, and dolphin insurance out of BC. Once you have an idea on where you will base, call both and ask for rates in that area.
Your idea is very doable and many Canadians do it. There will be hoops to jump through, and a lot of your time aboard will be maintenance and especially cleaning. For 4 months aboard, I would say it's worthwhile. For 2 months aboard, I would suggest looking into doing charters on similar size boats. Less maintenance, more fun. And similar cost through the year (as storage, docking, maintenance)

[shimari]

You'll have to pay an excise tax of 5% of the market value capped at $15,800 if you keep the boat in Maryland OR if Maryland is the state of principal use. It is a one time fee.

I'd think about Rhode Island. No taxes and excellent tradesmen.

[Reeve21]

Originally Posted by shimari

You'll have to pay an excise tax of 5% of the market value capped at $15,800 if you keep the boat in Maryland OR if Maryland is the state of principal use. It is a one time fee.

I'd think about Rhode Island. No taxes and excellent tradesmen.

I agree about Rhode Island. No sales or use tax on boats. Connecticut was over 6% until a few years ago when they cut it to 3% to try to compete with Rhode Island.

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by marcjsmith

from a summer cruising POV I'd then look a far bit north to the Chesapeake Bay you'd have 8-10 months of sailing/cruising/gunkholing, ect

I'm paying 3200, (plus electric) for 12 month slip south of annapolis for my 38' moody. on hard storage is 300 mo plus lift/launch fees at a nearby yard.

$3200 for 12 months sounds pretty reasonable. lol, want a neighbour? can they take 53' vessels?



Our plan is to do the Atlantic circle, departing from the north east, and ending up in the Caribbean for 6 months before returning to the north east. Basically July-July of the given year. So Chesapeake would work for us.

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by mako

OP, if you register the boat in Canada but don't import it, do you still have to pay the total of 25% taxes, or do they not apply as long as offshore?

Then you just need to go about obtaining a cruising permit (good for one year), sail across to The Bahamas annually, then bring it back into the US on a new permit.

If you expect to document the boat in the US then you'll need a citizen to own it (Florida relative).

BTW I feel your pain. I'm in discussions to build a new boat in China but will have to register it offshore, then cruise in my own home waters on a permit as well. Otherwise would be subject to 30% duties.

Thanks Mako.
You can register the boat in Canada without the boat physically present in Canada. My understanding is that you only pay the taxes when the boat physically returns to Canada... it's a "Hey, welcome home, pay your sales tax and import duty before you leave the office." type situation.

They import tariffs are 0% for US and Euro produced boats, so there's a strong incentive there. It's ~10% for other boats made overseas which is a hard pill to swallow on an older boat... but even worse on a NEW boat where we have a luxury tax of 20% on boats over $250,000! So yeah... finding a good, used boat made in US or Euro is the best option for reducing taxes. However... that doesn't apply to every boat that I like. ;-)