Killer whales launch ‘orchestrated’ attacks on sailing boats

[alaskanviking]

I don't know if electroshock would work. They sense by sound, not electricity or magnetism like a shark. Blubber is a good insulator.

Seal bombs may work, I think that should be more of a last ditch effort. that would effect sound, and maybe it would disorient there sensors. It's just as possible to piss them off with it though. I've heard more than a few Alaska fishermen's tales about pissed orcas, f-ing up boats, if even 1/4 of those are true than it's not worth the risk of doing something to piss them off. Worse it injures, stuns, or scares a a young one. They are overprotective and that would set them off, they are not known to stop with a warning after that.

I wonder if an ink pack they use against sharks would work. Maybe dropping a waterproof speaker and blasting heavy metal may scare them away, maybe some classical or instrumental will calm them. Hmm if you put it on a long line and let it drag behind the boat maybe the music will be a good decoy or distraction.

There are no known tales about orcas killing humans in Alaska. But a lot of that area is considered the "Alaska Triangle". People go missing all the time, there is no proof for or against some of them were an orca snack or plaything like SeaWorld. They are intelligent and known to delicately pick fish off of of long lines and nets. Some of these areas where they have become more aggressive seems to have a lack of food component. If they are hunting and killing blue whales now, how soon before they snack on kayakers and drunk dingy passengers? Honestly if they are killing and eating giant blue whales, what makes you feel safe on your little 30'-40' plastic boat? I think your going to need a bigger boat!

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

That's about the first proposed solution that I would find acceptable - and might even work!

I think that what we find to be an “acceptable” deterrent is directly related to our distance from the open jaws of an orca. As I sit here in the comfort of my home, I’m all for not harming them unnecessarily but if a pod of them was attacking my boat I’m afraid I’d start to wish I had a depth charge or a bazooka on hand.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I think that what we find to be an “acceptable” deterrent is directly related to our distance from the open jaws of an orca. As I sit here in the comfort of my home, I’m all for not harming them unnecessarily but if a pod of them was attacking my boat I’m afraid I’d start to wish I had a depth charge or a bazooka on hand.

Depth charges might work. A bazooka shell would probably just harmlessly glance off. Personally I would think the pepper irritant would be MORE effective - although you'd probably have to put a lot of it into the water.

I've had orcas right alongside Scorpius such that I was looking over the lifelines and straight down their blowholes. I've been in a kayak when an orca, from a distance, has come straight at me, beam on, then rolled over (so that it's dorsal fin wouldn't hit my kayak) and slipped beneath me, it's white belly clearing the bottom of the kayak by about a foot. I see them all the time. Here's a video taken last week in the heart of Vancouver:

https://www.nsnews.com/in-the-commun...couver-4993026

Of around 50,000 orcas in the entire world, we have ONE pod, off the coast of Portugal, that's causing problems. We know where it is. We've been warned to stay out of that area (wasn't an Exclusion Zone declared?) and that should be our first line of defence.

Portugal is an EU member. The EU has strict gun control laws. Although I suppose they are technically not guns, I suspect that, if you brought a bazooka or depth charges into the area, you would be more likely to end up in a Portuguese jail than be attacked by an orca.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

... 1. Of around 50,000 orcas in the entire world, we have ONE pod, off the coast of Portugal, that's causing problems. We know where it is. We've been warned to stay out of that area (wasn't an Exclusion Zone declared?) and that should be our first line of defence.
2. Portugal is an EU member. The EU has strict gun control laws. Although I suppose they are technically not guns, I suspect that, if you brought a bazooka or depth charges into the area, you would be more likely to end up in a Portuguese jail than be attacked by an orca.

1. Indeed.
2. Guns are firearms, but not all firearms are guns. Does the EU have gun control, or firearms regulations?

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by GordMay

1. Indeed.
2. Guns are firearms, but not all firearms are guns. Does the EU have gun control, or firearms regulations?

It's my understanding that non-citizens may not have firearms in any EU country - although most, if not all, will allow you to put them in police custody while you are there and will return them when you leave.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

There are no known tales about orcas killing humans in Alaska. But a lot of that area is considered the "Alaska Triangle". People go missing all the time, there is no proof for or against some of them were an orca snack or plaything like SeaWorld. They are intelligent and known to delicately pick fish off of of long lines and nets. Some of these areas where they have become more aggressive seems to have a lack of food component. If they are hunting and killing blue whales now, how soon before they snack on kayakers and drunk dingy passengers? Honestly if they are killing and eating giant blue whales, what makes you feel safe on your little 30'-40' plastic boat? I think your going to need a bigger boat!

I suspect that, at least in some occurrences, if an orca were attacking a boat, the boat would be able to get a mayday out or turn an Epirb on. The fact that there have been NO reports of orca attacks should, I think, be indicative of the fact that there haven't been any.

Over the last 50 years or so, I've heard of two aberrant pods of orcas attacking sailboats: one long ago near the Galapagos and this one off Portugal - and the one off the Galapagos was probably a single whale. That's it.

[Tillikum]

Originally Posted by alaskanviking

m....maybe some classical or instrumental will calm them. Hmm if you put it on a long line and let it drag behind the boat maybe the music will be a good decoy or distraction.

The calming effect on humans is well proven, and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence of music soothing other "savage beasts".

Well worth a try. Might attract other large marine mammals too, and that could in turn distract or discourage the orcas.

If they seem to like some sound and not others, alternating between what they like, and what they don't like, depending on their behaviour would soon make the association clear to them.

Problem is, if they enjoy bashing bits off boats, they may just go and do it on boats without any "audio defences".

If this is a group of "juvenile delinquents" without "adult supervision", they may just have to be culled like those rogue juvenile elephants in Africa. One would need to study the history, dynamics and composition of the pod(s). Could be adults in the pod(s) have been lost to collisions with boats and some members have formed a "grudge" for which small boats are a convenient outlet, or the animals the orcas usually take out their predatory impulses on are not available leading to boats becoming the outlet?

[owly]

Bazookas and underwater bombs are kind of unrealistic. What we DO have is flares, and flares generally will burn under water once lit. A flare on a pole in the area of your rudder could drive them off, or a flare attached between a float of some sort and a weight so that it hung down into the water in the vulnerable area. A scary unfamiliar phenomenon to the orcas.....


I have owned and do own firearms for around 50 years, as is the case with virtually everybody I know. But I'm not a "city boy".... I no longer hunt, but I do keep problem varmints away as needed. (raccoons and skunks mostly). Shooting into water is a problem....it really doesn't work for practical purposes. Energy is rapidly lost, plus something viewed through water is often not where you think it is due to refraction. And there is the issue of bullets ricocheting off the surface. I remember many years ago along a small private irrigation reservoir I spent many hours shooting at a tin can on the opposite side using skip...... I think I burned through close to a full box of 22LR before I managed to hit it.

The point is that if you use a firearm shoot at the animal when it is on the surface, or very very close, and make sure there is nothing within range you don't want to hit.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by owly

Bazookas and underwater bombs are kind of unrealistic. What we DO have is flares, and flares generally will burn under water once lit. A flare on a pole in the area of your rudder could drive them off, or a flare attached between a float of some sort and a weight so that it hung down into the water in the vulnerable area. A scary unfamiliar phenomenon to the orcas.....


I have owned and do own firearms for around 50 years, as is the case with virtually everybody I know. But I'm not a "city boy".... I no longer hunt, but I do keep problem varmints away as needed. (raccoons and skunks mostly). Shooting into water is a problem....it really doesn't work for practical purposes. Energy is rapidly lost, plus something viewed through water is often not where you think it is due to refraction. And there is the issue of bullets ricocheting off the surface. I remember many years ago along a small private irrigation reservoir I spent many hours shooting at a tin can on the opposite side using skip...... I think I burned through close to a full box of 22LR before I managed to hit it.

The point is that if you use a firearm shoot at the animal when it is on the surface, or very very close, and make sure there is nothing within range you don't want to hit.

Yup, flares have possibilities - and they are legal and should be readily available. Of course, you may just make the orcas mad and risk a really serious assault. No fibreglass or wood hull is going to withstand an orca ramming it at speed - although I have seen a walrus unsuccessfully attack an icebreaker!

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Depth charges might work. A bazooka shell would probably just harmlessly glance off. Personally I would think the pepper irritant would be MORE effective - although you'd probably have to put a lot of it into the water.


Portugal is an EU member. The EU has strict gun control laws. Although I suppose they are technically not guns, I suspect that, if you brought a bazooka or depth charges into the area, you would be more likely to end up in a Portuguese jail than be attacked by an orca.

I never dreamt that anyone would think my mention of a bazooka or depth charges was a serious suggestion. Also, though I have lots of guns in a safe at home and have successfully hunted deer and moose, I would have very serious reservations about trying to use even my most powerful rifle to repel an Orca attack because I’d worry that it might only irritate them more and make them even more aggressive and I wouldn’t know quite where to aim either.

The only point I was trying to make was that it’s one thing to contemplate discouraging an aggressive pod of orcas by gentle means when we’re safely in our own homes, but for those who actually experience it, it must be absolutely terrifying and even the gentlest among us would be fervently wishing for ANY method, peaceful or violent, that would actually calm them down or make them go away.

[sv_pelagia]

Spanish police bust drug ring suspected of faking orca attack to aid smuggling

Group allegedly transported hashish on boats from Morocco then simulated accidents and asked to be towed to Spain...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-aid-smuggling

[owly]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I never dreamt that anyone would think my mention of a bazooka or depth charges was a serious suggestion. Also, though I have lots of guns in a safe at home and have successfully hunted deer and moose, I would have very serious reservations about trying to use even my most powerful rifle to repel an Orca attack because I’d worry that it might only irritate them more and make them even more aggressive and I wouldn’t know quite where to aim either.

The only point I was trying to make was that it’s one thing to contemplate discouraging an aggressive pod of orcas by gentle means when we’re safely in our own homes, but for those who actually experience it, it must be absolutely terrifying and even the gentlest among us would be fervently wishing for ANY method, peaceful or violent, that would actually calm them down or make them go away.

Depending on the individual, and the tools / weapons you have aboard, we would probably respond differently in the heat of the moment........Whatever one does is a gamble weather it be attempts to pacify or aggressive confrontation. I by nature / experience place a lot of stock in confrontation and bluff and violence if it is an option which it usually is not as I am usually unarmed in my encounters with predators. It has always served me well as an outdoorsman who spends a lot of time solo in the mountains... Often in remote parts of the Rockies. That may or may not be a successful strategy with aggressive orcas. By my nature / experience, it would be my instinctive response. Perhaps with positive or perhaps negative even fatal results........ who knows? Bear or a lion (cougar) (and human) encounters are the extent of my experience in such matters. Though the same thing applies with such things as aggressive dogs, even hornets.... If they see you as the aggressor, and dominant you win out in the end. But hesitancy or lack of confidence changes the equation. You have to be "all in" and confident. With a group of aggressive orcas, you are aboard, they are under water, and you do not have the tools to telegraph that easily.
None of us has harpoon guns of the Moby Dick days........ In such a confrontation I would long for Samuel Baker White's "the baby" His 2 gauge elephant gun with explosive rounds (In The Heart of Africa 1884).... I can't even imagine firing such a weapon though I've fired 10 gauge shotguns, and 50 MG Barrett (I do not own such things). A great read if you love true African adventures. Published in 1884, it describes his adventures seeking the sources of the Nile...... which he did NOT find as he was so obsessed with big game hunting....Can be downloaded from Project Gutenberg free or obtained from Amazon in hardback. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/3233

In reality sound is probably the best weapon. Marine mammals have very sensitive hearing......... Ironically there is a sonic device designed to repel sharks that mimics the sounds of orcas......https://newatlas.com/sharkstopper-so...pellant/33424/
But no device developed thus far to repel orcas........ what do they fear?? Only man.

[Notfast]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

... I wonder if there's some non-lethal way to drive them off, or convince them they aren't going to get a meal by damaging boats.

I've seen modern day inuit use long blades which look like sharpened sheet metal lashed to long poles to cut up dead whales during the butchering process, you could easily make something like that and, depending on your boat, probably stick it down in a position that any attacking whales would get badly cut if they didn't leave your rudder alone. Sort of a "Your move, Whale." Non verbal communication. Orcas are said to be pretty intelligent so they probably would reconsider the attack. Probably even easier from a hove-to position. Just a hypothesis but probably better than nothing.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Spanish police bust drug ring suspected of faking orca attack to aid smuggling

Group allegedly transported hashish on boats from Morocco then simulated accidents and asked to be towed to Spain...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-aid-smuggling

Interesting. It makees me wonder if all 50 attacks were legitimate orca atracks or if some reported attacks were scams.

[Gadagirl]

Originally Posted by Notfast

I've seen modern day inuit use long blades which look like sharpened sheet metal lashed to long poles to cut up dead whales during the butchering process, you could easily make something like that and, depending on your boat, probably stick it down in a position that any attacking whales would get badly cut if they didn't leave your rudder alone. Sort of a "Your move, Whale." Non verbal communication. Orcas are said to be pretty intelligent so they probably would reconsider the attack. Probably even easier from a hove-to position. Just a hypothesis but probably better than nothing.

If these are your thoughts while awake and conscious, please share with us what your nightmares are made of.

Seriously suggesting huge razor blade attached to the rudder?

As stated up-thread, simply putting the boat in reverse is an effective deterrent

Disclaimer: I really don't want to hear abour your nightmares