Killer whales launch ‘orchestrated’ attacks on sailing boats

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Gadagirl

Interesting. It makees me wonder if all 50 attacks were legitimate orca atracks or if some reported attacks were scams.

I have seen a good number of boats arrive badly damaged in Southern Spain and Portugal the damage was definitely not a fake or a scam.


There is however a tried and tested method that works to prevent damage and is now being recommended the authorities.



Motor slowly in reverse, the orcas get bored and leave after a very short time and because your rudder is at the front protected by the propeller so avoids being damaged. No boat using this technique has been damaged to my knowledge.



All this talk of weaponry seems totally out of context to the reality of the situation.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by Notfast

I've seen modern day inuit use long blades which look like sharpened sheet metal lashed to long poles to cut up dead whales during the butchering process, you could easily make something like that and, depending on your boat, probably stick it down in a position that any attacking whales would get badly cut if they didn't leave your rudder alone. Sort of a "Your move, Whale." Non verbal communication. Orcas are said to be pretty intelligent so they probably would reconsider the attack. Probably even easier from a hove-to position. Just a hypothesis but probably better than nothing.

Sounds like a cadged-together "flensing" knife. I don't know if you would deter or infuriate the whales.

[Boat Guy]

Anyone have more detailed info on this?


https://www.theportugalnews.com/news...se-coast/69112

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Sounds like a cadged-together "flensing" knife. I don't know if you would deter or infuriate the whales.

Quote
"talk of weaponry seems totally out of context to the reality of the situation."

Typical human reaction...
Wound or kill what they do not understand.

This sounds very much like competing behavior.
As this is happening to sailing vessels, the fin keels and rudders may mimic other types of competing wildlife in the water, Sharks, dolphins, ect.
Since this group has learned that these attacks work for them, they could pass on this experience to their immediate grouping.

Possibility, munitions, such as M-80s may deter them.
Shooting them or killing/injuring them could well accelerate those natural instincts to attack in defense of their group.

Can we try to understand better the issues, and STOP the destructive behavior of wounding/killing, what we do not understand. That's is so abrupt and absurd.

Boatyarddog

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Quote
"talk of weaponry seems totally out of context to the reality of the situation."

Typical human reaction...
Wound or kill what they do not understand.



Can we try to understand better the issues, and STOP the destructive behavior of wounding/killing, what we do not understand. That's is so abrupt and absurd.

Boatyarddog

Of course we can strive to better understand the aggressive behavior of thie pod but once they single you out as their next victim, I bet you'd become a LOT less peaceful if you thought that would save your bacon from being eaten by them. That said, I don't think it's practical to carry a weapon aboard a cruising sailboat that would be capable of even seriously injuring an orca so the most practical seeming solution seems to me would be motoring slowly in reverse or making a loud noise underwater. But if that didn't work and I thought my 12 gauge shotgun or flare gun would save me, I wouldn't hesitate to use them. So would you, then once you got back on land you could continue your handwringing about "those awful humans" and how absurd it was to shoot the poor hungry orca that you managed to deprive of his lunch. Nobody on here has said they WANT to kill an orca because they don't understand them, but if you perceive that you're about to become someones lunch, it changes your perspective....

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by Boatyarddog

Quote
"talk of weaponry seems totally out of context to the reality of the situation."

Typical human reaction...
Wound or kill what they do not understand.

This sounds very much like competing behavior.
As this is happening to sailing vessels, the fin keels and rudders may mimic other types of competing wildlife in the water, Sharks, dolphins, ect.
Since this group has learned that these attacks work for them, they could pass on this experience to their immediate grouping.

Possibility, munitions, such as M-80s may deter them.
Shooting them or killing/injuring them could well accelerate those natural instincts to attack in defense of their group.

Can we try to understand better the issues, and STOP the destructive behavior of wounding/killing, what we do not understand. That's is so abrupt and absurd.

Boatyarddog

I am a big fan of all marine life almost to the point of Buddhism.

BUT when an elephant or a lion goes rouge it is necessary to cull it before it kills someone.

These five people were lucky as was a Moroccan fisherman whose boat was also sunk off of Tangier recently and had to be rescued from the sea.

There have now been hundreds of "attacks" these are not mere interactions, by a single pod involving 3 individuals. How many more attacks before someone dies.

The three recent attacks I know of personally involved repair costs of Euro5000, Euro7000 and £14000 excluding towing haul out and labour costs and were terrifying experiences for those on board. It will not be long before the whole of the Iberian peninsula is off limits either for fear of attack or insurance restrictions. This effectively affects any boat sailing out of Northern Europe with the exception of a few that brave a passage across the N. Atlantic to New England.
Whales are not stupid so perhaps a cull by the authorities of one individual during an attack (sorry interaction) will avert further attacks by the remaining pod members.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

the most practical seeming solution seems to me would be motoring slowly in reverse or making a loud noise underwater.

Both these options are illegal in Portuguese and Spanish waters. It is considered to be against protocol that requires, engines to be stopped sails dropped and for persons onboard not to provoke or make eye contact with the orcas.

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Of course we can strive to better understand the aggressive behavior of thie pod but once they single you out as their next victim, I bet you'd become a LOT less peaceful if you thought that would save your bacon from being eaten by them. That said, I don't think it's practical to carry a weapon aboard a cruising sailboat that would be capable of even seriously injuring an orca so the most practical seeming solution seems to me would be motoring slowly in reverse or making a loud noise underwater. But if that didn't work and I thought my 12 gauge shotgun or flare gun would save me, I wouldn't hesitate to use them. So would you, then once you got back on land you could continue your handwringing about "those awful humans" and how absurd it was to shoot the poor hungry orca that you managed to deprive of his lunch. Nobody on here has said they WANT to kill an orca because they don't understand them, but if you perceive that you're about to become someones lunch, it changes your perspective....

You assume a lot.
And we know what ass umptions do!

This is the only vessel reported to have enough damage to causing a sinking.
They got lucky, in a vulnerable area of that vessel.

And if they viewed the crew as their "next victims", you'd be giving them a lot more credit than the evidence shows about their "thinking".

As the crew was rescued off a life raft, proves the " next victim Theroy is not teathered in truth but is one of supposition.
Boatyarddog

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

I am a big fan of all marine life almost to the point of Buddhism.

BUT when an elephant or a lion goes rouge it is necessary to cull it before it kills someone.

These five people were lucky as was a Moroccan fisherman whose boat was also sunk off of Tangier recently and had to be rescued from the sea.

There have now been hundreds of "attacks" these are not mere interactions, by a single pod involving 3 individuals. How many more attacks before someone dies.

The three recent attacks I know of personally involved repair costs of Euro5000, Euro7000 and £14000 excluding towing haul out and labour costs and were terrifying experiences for those on board. It will not be long before the whole of the Iberian peninsula is off limits either for fear of attack or insurance restrictions. This effectively affects any boat sailing out of Northern Europe with the exception of a few that brave a passage across the N. Atlantic to New England.
Whales are not stupid so perhaps a cull by the authorities of one individual during an attack (sorry interaction) will avert further attacks by the remaining pod members.

Quote
"Whales are not stupid so perhaps a cull by the authorities of one individual during an attack (sorry interaction) will avert further attacks by the remaining pod members."

As you've mentioned much more intelligent than known.
This is not about the boats as much as a competive behavior.

In the Northwest, we have been inundated by Orca, and many encounters with Kayaks, page boards , jet skiers chasing them, ect.
Theses encounters are with Tpods or the Meat eaters, not the Jpods, or salmon eaters.

All encounters resulted in Zero, damage, deaths, or attacks.

Sorry those vessels were damaged, I believe its normal predator behavior to chase the OUTSIDERS out.
Not a single mammal, with a vengeance for yachties
Boatyarddog

[boatman61]

Project Fear... if they wanted to munch humans there would be lots of victims over the decades.
What this seems to me is about chasing/driving 'competitors' away from their claimed territory. If they can take out huge great whites for their liver people in a flimsy liferaft is no challenge.
They seem to be stationing themselves along the seasonal tuna runs and each year the catches are getting smaller in size... gone are the 10ftrs unloaded of the tuna boats in the 90's, 6ft is considered a good catch these days.
Its all about resources..

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Project Fear... if they wanted to munch humans there would be lots of victims over the decades.
What this seems to me is about chasing/driving 'competitors' away from their claimed territory. If they can take out huge great whites for their liver people in a flimsy liferaft is no challenge.
They seem to be stationing themselves along the seasonal tuna runs and each year the catches are getting smaller in size... gone are the 10ftrs unloaded of the tuna boats in the 90's, 6ft is considered a good catch these days.
Its all about resources..

An excellent and rational thought!
Thanks for the comment!
Boatyarddog

[Franziska]

I'm wondering what percentage of cruising boats are actually trailing one or two long lines for tuna or similar.
How many of the attacked boats did that?

If it's many and the Orca somehow get that (?) this might be adding to the reason why they go after slow smaller boats.

Or do they "understand" that they can do nothing against bigger fishing boats?

The weird thing is that I think that most cruisers are generally pro nature and admire the oceans creatures. In a way we seem to be collateral damage of the acts of the commercial fishing industries actions towards the Orcas, no?

We'll be sailing from Viveiro to Cedeira tommorow. We will not go very far offshore. The night we got here another boat had problems about 20nm of us...
Cross your fingers we do not meet our black&white friends. Few years ago I would have been excited by the perspective to see some, now, less so...

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I bet you'd become a LOT less peaceful if you thought that would save your bacon from being eaten by them.
...
the poor hungry orca that you managed to deprive of his lunch.
...
if you perceive that you're about to become someones lunch, it changes your perspective....

Oh please.

Orcas do NOT eat people. Period.

In fact, the only known human fatalities caused by orca were all committed by individuals that had been raised in captivity, and were certifiably insane (in the opinion of their own handlers!) by virtue of a combination of having had no normal social interactions with others of their own species, and being bored out of their skulls due to being confined in a small area for many years. Hardly surprising that eventually, they lost the plot and managed to kill one of their handlers. (And even then, eating them does not seem to be what they had in mind. At least one case, to my mind, seems to have been an attempt by a lonely, horny (and batshit crazy) juvenile male, to mate with a handler.)

Wild orca have never demonstrated any interest in eating humans, despite many opportunities to do so, and if anything, seem to regard us in much the same way as dolphins do.

Please do some basic fact-checking next time, instead of making assumptions and expressing stupid opinions that do nothing except prove that you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by boatman61

if they wanted to munch humans there would be lots of victims over the decades.

Exactly! And yet, there are none.

[Dave_S]

We must really taste bad or maybe people bones get caught in their teeth.

https://youtu.be/y8iipFTBanc

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Dave_S

We must really taste bad or maybe people bones get caught in their teeth.

https://youtu.be/y8iipFTBanc

Thanks Dave.
Most people have watched Aws to many times, so Every Fin is a shark.
Or, a threat
BYD