Killer whales launch ‘orchestrated’ attacks on sailing boats

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Chotu

... What is their perception distance? How far away can they tell a boat is moving? I feel like we are talking about miles.
... For instance, they can hear their own calls thousands of miles away*.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...iles-away.html [1]

* [1] A humpback whale singing in the Caribbean, for example, can be heard by a fellow whale off the west coast of Ireland more than 4,000 miles away.

Orca Echolocation: Used underwater for navigation and hunting for prey; referred to as Click Trains (listen for snaps, clicks, and pops).
Clicks are brief pulses of ultrasonic sound. The reflected echoes act as a biological 'sonar,' giving the whale an exquisite perception of the distance and texture of everything within acoustic range (hundreds of feet to hundreds of yards).

Orca Whistles & Calls: Used for social communication.
Whistles and calls are distinctive and can be heard for miles. Each pod has a unique and recognizable vocabulary called a dialect that is stable over time. Dialects are probably an important means of maintaining group identity and cohesiveness, while distinguishing pod affiliations.

[Chotu]

So, yeah. I don’t think it’s going to work out with those location devices. There’s no avoiding them if they want to come over to “play.”

Note: Gord’s post above mine exposes a bug in the forum software. If you quote it, the quotes do not line up properly and it does not quite as it should.

[chubby]

so it seems bags of sand and waterproof firecrackers seem be worth having aboard..



i'm curious if this orca problem will motivate some folks into also carrying firearms aboard on crossings... just for "insurance"
(for those situations where you'd prefer potentially being judged by peers versus...you know...being dead)


and i doubt you'd even need an expensive african game rifle.

..a revolver chambered in .500 S&W Mag should be more than sufficient.
(and relatively cheap...and small)


my guess is a slug placed directlybehind the blowhole should end unwanted behavior rather quickly..

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Orcas have and will be tagged now, so orca.pt know where they are and will broadcast their position so you can avoid them.

Not as far as I am aware. Lots of talk of tagging.


www.orca.pt - is an excellent site with notifications via telegram but only of sightings reported not real time from tagging.



GT Orca Atlantico - app gives up to date "ish" traffic light system for areas but still relays on reported incidents, not actual positions from tagging.


Orcinus - app is virtually useless to mariners with very limited functionality and again not in real time.


Tell me if have got this wrong.


I am wondering if these competing entities are cross referencing the sightings data.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by chubby

so it seems bags of sand and waterproof firecrackers seem be worth having aboard..



i'm curious if this orca problem will motivate some folks into also carrying firearms aboard on crossings... just for "insurance"
(for those situations where you'd prefer potentially being judged by peers versus...you know...being dead)


and i doubt you'd even need an expensive african game rifle.

..a revolver chambered in .500 S&W Mag should be more than sufficient.
(and relatively cheap...and small)


my guess is a slug placed directlybehind the blowhole should end unwanted behavior rather quickly..

This not helpful. Fire arms are neither cheap nor legal in the countries this relates to. Killing orcas is not the answer unless culled by the authorities as a last resort. Getting the various groups to accept that there is a problem. Making real time location data available and finding and sanctioning non lethal deterrents if interactions cannot be avoided is the way forward.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

This not helpful. Fire arms are neither cheap nor legal in the countries this relates to. Killing orcas is not the answer unless culled by the authorities as a last resort. Getting the various groups to accept that there is a problem. Making real time location data available and finding and sanctioning non lethal deterrents if interactions cannot be avoided is the way forward.

And I really think it’s only going to make them angry if you shoot them. As in breach and destroy you angry.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

This not helpful. Fire arms are neither cheap nor legal in the countries this relates to. Killing orcas is not the answer unless culled by the authorities as a last resort. Getting the various groups to accept that there is a problem. Making real time location data available and finding and sanctioning non lethal deterrents if interactions cannot be avoided is the way forward.

sorry.
speaking for from perspective of an american moving a boat to europe...
(so it would be 100% legal...and i was talking about a "last resort")
this is now the time of the year for atlantic crossing to portugal...so the thinking is 100% relevant too.








btw,

IF that pod runs into the wrong boat...wouldnt the problem be corrected?


nature does have a way of working itself out...and humans are part of nature.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by chubby

sorry.
speaking for from perspective of an american moving a boat to europe...
(so it would be 100% legal...and i was talking about a "last resort") ...

Do you think that being an American citizen immunizes you from foreign laws, in their jurisdictions?
Spain has amongst the most restrictive gun ownership laws in the world. The answer is you cannot own or use firearms for self defence, further more the only firearms available to the public are hunting guns such as shotguns.
Portuguese citizens can own firearms for hunting, target shooting, pest control and collecting. Self-defense is not considered a legal reason for owning a firearm. Legally, only licensed gun owners can lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition. Safes are required in homes for storage of weapons.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by chubby

sorry.
speaking for from perspective of an american moving a boat to europe...
(so it would be 100% legal...and i was talking about a "last resort")
this is now the time of the year for atlantic crossing to portugal...so the thinking is 100% relevant too.

What is the relevance of being an American?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by chubby

sorry.
speaking for from perspective of an american moving a boat to europe...
(so it would be 100% legal...and i was talking about a "last resort")
this is now the time of the year for atlantic crossing to portugal...so the thinking is 100% relevant too.








btw,

IF that pod runs into the wrong boat...wouldnt the problem be corrected?


nature does have a way of working itself out...and humans are part of nature.

As a US citizen you can carry firearms on the high seas as US flagged vessels are subject to US laws. As soon as you enter another country’s territorial waters you are subject to that country’s laws.

In most of Western Europe you will have to surrender the firearms and ammo on checkin and may or may not get them back depending on the country and particular jurisdiction.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by Chotu

And I really think it’s only going to make them angry if you shoot them. As in breach and destroy you angry.

..a 500 S&W Mag will stop a charging black buffalo instantly.



native population harvest orcas with .30 (non mag) caliber rifle...the 500 S&W is actually overkill.
(the object here isn't hunting...it would for the "emergency")



from close range a well delivered .500 slug onto nervous tissue (ie behind blowhole) is the solution to the worry about it getting angry.


these creatures are intelligent...it will not be necessary to cull them


once key members of the pod recognize again the negatives of "playing" with human lives... they'll teach the rest.

[NaClyDog]

No wonder there are so many wars going on around the world.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Do you think that being an American citizen immunizes you from foreign laws, in their jurisdictions?
Spain has amongst the most restrictive gun ownership laws in the world. The answer is you cannot own or use firearms for self defence, further more the only firearms available to the public are hunting guns such as shotguns.
Portuguese citizens can own firearms for hunting, target shooting, pest control and collecting. Self-defense is not considered a legal reason for owning a firearm. Legally, only licensed gun owners can lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition. Safes are required in homes for storage of weapons.

It is the same in the Netherlands, but…

When you use a gun in self defense, then the judge will make the decision if you were justified to use lethal force in self defense and if so (if you or people around you were in mortal danger or you were convinced you/they were in mortal danger) the use of lethal force will be considered legal. Even if it is an illegal gun.

Of course you can be charged with possession of an illegal gun, but this hasn’t happened for several cases if the gun wasn’t used for criminal violence.

The example that I recall was the wife of a jeweler who shot robbers, killing one or two (she also hit her husband ). The gun was illegal and her husband’s. They both walked free.

[Chotu]

Buffalo weigh up to 2000 lbs.

Orcas weigh up to 16,000 lbs.

8x bigger than a little Buffalo.

I wouldn’t count on them taking an injury too kindly. They are already proving they can be aggressive if provoked. A little baby gun like you’re describing will definitely just get them mad

And considering they are likely more intelligent than humans and travel in social pods (gangs?), I’m pretty sure even if you got extremely lucky and really hurt one, the others would kill you for sure.

Not the answer

[chubby]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Do you think that being an American citizen immunizes you from foreign laws, in their jurisdictions?
Spain has amongst the most restrictive gun ownership laws in the world. The answer is you cannot own or use firearms for self defence, further more the only firearms available to the public are hunting guns such as shotguns.
Portuguese citizens can own firearms for hunting, target shooting, pest control and collecting. Self-defense is not considered a legal reason for owning a firearm. Legally, only licensed gun owners can lawfully acquire, possess or transfer a firearm or ammunition. Safes are required in homes for storage of weapons.

of course not.
i'd always follow local laws.. obviously.

..i believe firearms must simply be declared in portugal...

not a big deal or inconvience





and i was speaking in more generalities...
meaning.. if facing the potential loss of boat and/or life...vesus dealing the potential ethnical/legal issues concerning ridding the world of a misbehaving blackfish,,
many humans will decide "sorry, shamu..."



it is what it is.

What is the relevance of being an American?

that is the perspective i was speaking from.. (i know nothing of living where self defense is limited)

a 500 S&W Magnum was design for hunting and defending against the largest bears of north america....and is readily available.


and it been proven to stop big dangerous game such as elephants and black buffalos at close range..


the negative..
since revolvers are relatively small.. and inexpensive....and carried as "insurance" only... they are also frequently lost overboard at sea..
(sigh)