Killer whales launch ‘orchestrated’ attacks on sailing boats

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I am wondering how well this will work.

What is their perception distance? How far away can they tell a boat is moving? I feel like we are talking about miles.

And I was reading up on them they do about 26 knots cruising speed.

For instance, they can hear their own calls thousands of miles away.

(Now it makes sense how the behavior can spread very quickly around the globe)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...iles-away.html

Works very well since several month. No one thats part of the Telegram and whatsup group of orcas.pt got attacked or damaged. I am member too since 3 month.
They post min 2 a day position and you have the scientist Renaud who is out with a boat every day close to them and studying them. Till now we relied on him and the organization CIRCE 's network when they sighted the orcas. Now that can be done even more accurate as they can offically tag and localize them.
Its not Orcas interest to attack but if you drive through their lunch plate and mum/dads get food low down while bored youngsters wait on the surface waiting you are a welcomed toy and disturbance for them...

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by chubby

..a 500 S&W Mag will stop a charging black buffalo instantly.



native population harvest orcas with .30 (non mag) caliber rifle...the 500 S&W is actually overkill.
(the object here isn't hunting...it would for the "emergency")



from close range a well delivered .500 slug onto nervous tissue (ie behind blowhole) is the solution to the worry about it getting angry.


these creatures are intelligent...it will not be necessary to cull them


once key members of the pod recognize again the negatives of "playing" with human lives... they'll teach the rest.

Well if you hurt the youngster mum, daddy and uncle is comming each 10m long and 8-10t heavy and your boat plus you will be smashed to pieces....
So not a good idea unles you have serious amount of underwater dynamit with you...

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Chotu

So, yeah. I don’t think it’s going to work out with those location devices. There’s no avoiding them if they want to come over to “play.”

Note: Gord’s post above mine exposes a bug in the forum software. If you quote it, the quotes do not line up properly and it does not quite as it should.

They don't come over and play....the ones that got attacked where driving straight through their lunch plate...mum&dad low down getting tuna while bored youngsters are at surface and you dirving sirectly upfront their nose, so you are a welcomed toy and distrubance for them.


So avoiding to go through their lunch plate is key. They also don't go far from the pod, so if you get spotted by orca best is you are driving full speed away from them direction shallow water, they loose interest and let you go.
Switching engine of and playing dead is worst you can do.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Works very well since several month. No one thats part of the Telegram and whatsup group of orcas.pt got attacked or damaged. I am member too since 3 month.
They post min 2 a day position and you have the scientist Renaud who is out with a boat every day close to them and studying them. Till now we relied on him and the organization CIRCE 's network when they sighted the orcas. Now that can be done even more accurate as they can offically tag and localize them.
Its not Orcas interest to attack but if you drive through their lunch plate and mum/dads get food low down while bored youngsters wait on the surface waiting you are a welcomed toy and disturbance for them...

As I said earlier orca.pt is excellent and Renaud is doing a fantastic job but unless you know otherwise no orcas have been electronically tagged.

This pod moves between Gibraltar and Galicia so as good a jib as Renaud is doing one man and his boat 24 hours a day all year round will not cut it.

Electronic geotagging with real time reporting is not beyond current technology.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by chubby

... from close range a well delivered .500 slug onto nervous tissue (ie behind blowhole) is the solution to the worry about it getting angry...
...
the negative..
since revolvers are relatively small.. and inexpensive....and carried as "insurance" only... they are also frequently lost overboard at sea..
(sigh) ...

Smith & Wesson billed the Model 500 revolver as "A Hunting Handgun For Any Game Animal Walking"
Clearly, not intended for non-game marine mammals.
➥ https://web.archive.org/web/20110716..._757767_757751


It seems, to me, to be (neither) small, nor cheap.

width 1.92 in
length 15 in
height 6.38 in
weight 69.1 oz
CALIBER 500 S&W MAGNUM
SIZE EXTRA LARGE
PRICE ± $2,000 US
➥ https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/x-frame-163501

It also seems that some of us may have an excess of Testosterone, and a deficiency of Dopamine.

[HeinSdL]

Originally Posted by chubby

of course not.
i'd always follow local laws.. obviously.

..i believe firearms must simply be declared in portugal...

not a big deal or inconvience





and i was speaking in more generalities...
meaning.. if facing the potential loss of boat and/or life...vesus dealing the potential ethnical/legal issues concerning ridding the world of a misbehaving blackfish,,
many humans will decide "sorry, shamu..."



it is what it is.


that is the perspective i was speaking from.. (i know nothing of living where self defense is limited)

a 500 S&W Magnum was design for hunting and defending against the largest bears of north america....and is readily available.


and it been proven to stop big dangerous game such as elephants and black buffalos at close range..


the negative..
since revolvers are relatively small.. and inexpensive....and carried as "insurance" only... they are also frequently lost overboard at sea..
(sigh)

I think I get the general idea. But for anyone to, let's say, put themselves in harms way by manoeuvring themselves into position a couple of miles offshore off the Iberian Peninsula, with pretty accurate information being available of where a pod of playful Orcas is hanging out, and then using some kind of lethal weapon, in self defence... Ain't gonna fly. Not to mention the stain on the reputation of visiting yachts people.

A local fisherman going out earning a living might have something to say, but not a yachtie coming from afar feeling sufficiently entitled to do whatever floats his or her boat. So, if you think you might need to carry some kind of assault weapon to get through the Straits of Gibraltar (as opposed to taking other worthwhile precautions such as avoiding the animals by downloading one of the apps available, hugging the coast line and simply accepting some level of risk) then don't go there at all. In other words, simply stay away?

Oh and by the way, I much rather go down with my X and be eaten by an Orca than be run over by a friggin' tram. Or to have a heart seizure sitting at my desk.

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

No wonder there are so many wars going on around the world.

[emoji106][emoji106]

very sad

[Maviarab]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Except some humans who have lost their instinctive drive to survival and will rather offer themselves to the attackers than put up a defense

You mean the humans who don't find all that inconvenient to either just not go to where they (or anything else is for that matter) are or go around them? Those people? The ones who don't think they have a godamn right to do what they like, where and when and the consequences be damned?

Those folk?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Maviarab

You mean the humans who don't find all that inconvenient to either just not go to where they (or anything else is for that matter) are or go around them? Those people? The ones who don't think they have a godamn right to do what they like, where and when and the consequences be damned?

Those folk?

You mean those who want to travel through the Straights of Gibraltar? That they have to go around Africa, fight the Pirates of Somalia, deal with the corrupted Suez Canal to get to/from the Mediterranean Sea just because you who do not need to sail your boat there ever, want to force everyone else to stay away from there as well?

I can tell you that I will sail my boat where I want and this in complete peace as long as I am not attacked.

[chubby]

Originally Posted by HeinSdL

I think I get the general idea. But for anyone to, let's say, put themselves in harms way by manoeuvring themselves into position a couple of miles offshore off the Iberian Peninsula, with pretty accurate information being available of where a pod of playful Orcas is hanging out, and then using some kind of lethal weapon, in self defence... Ain't gonna fly. Not to mention the stain on the reputation of visiting yachts people.

well.


..what if Portugal and /or spain is the destination?
should we all abandon the entire Iberian to save a few bad giant dolphins?


btw a killer whale is not some sea monster or armored swimming rhino..it is not a reason to live your life in fear.

do you know what is directly behind the blowhole? a not-that-well protected brain..
natives up in those cold weather lands harvest orcas yearly with basically deer rifles and outboard powered canoes..

and they have an active orca hunting group on facebook.

.. ..there is no need to re-invent the wheel here. ..and carrying a .50B MG is not needed









and i'm just speaking in terms of a last resort type of option.
(meaning if avoidance/sand/bang bang sticks don't work)

Smith & Wesson billed the Model 500 revolver as "A Hunting Handgun For Any Game Animal Walking"
Clearly, not intended for non-game marine mammals.
➥ https://web.archive.org/web/20110716..._757767_757751


It seems, to me, to be (neither) small, nor cheap.

wouldnt those terms be relative?


a revolver is small compared to a rifle (which is normally used to harvest orcas)
..and compared to elephant/dangerous game ammo... S&W 500 Mag ammo is a (relative) bargain.


(i can't argue that $1500-$2000 is cheap.. but that isnt extreme for a firearm these days

It also seems that some of us may have an excess of Testosterone, and a deficiency of Dopamine.

minor nick-pick:
while dopamine is known as a "feel" good hormone..its action is of a chemincal messenger. meaning of deficiency does not means what i'm thinking... you think it means.



la deficiency ...makes one "relaxed....maybe it could present as cramps (if anything)
it would have better to say "to much dopamine"..as clinically you would see over-aggression.






anyways..
...there (always) are options to protect one's boat

(i agree that for some.. lethal force might actually be more unpleasant than your home/sailboat sinking)

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

As I said earlier orca.pt is excellent and Renaud is doing a fantastic job but unless you know otherwise no orcas have been electronically tagged.

This pod moves between Gibraltar and Galicia so as good a jib as Renaud is doing one man and his boat 24 hours a day all year round will not cut it.

Electronic geotagging with real time reporting is not beyond current technology.

Authorities gave 2 weeks ago CIRCE/Renauld the official permission to tag 6 orcas of their choice to localize and broadcast the position to avoid attacks.
Its not only one boat as Circe has meanwhile a big network (ibncl. Commercials) that informs them about sighting too.
One Orca was already tagged, others will follow now.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Authorities gave 2 weeks ago CIRCE/Renauld the official permission to tag 6 orcas of their choice to localize and broadcast the position to avoid attacks.

Its not only one boat as Circe has meanwhile a big network (ibncl. Commercials) that informs them about sighting too.

One Orca was already tagged, others will follow now.

This and as in post #357 mentioned the CIRCE recommended procedures have now been adopted as official Spanish guidelines for passing the Orca hotspots and Tuna nets.

The Telegram groups in www.orca.pt do get regular daily updated locations of the whereabouts of Orca in the region.

Sent from my MHA-L29 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Authorities gave 2 weeks ago CIRCE/Renauld the official permission to tag 6 orcas of their choice to localize and broadcast the position to avoid attacks.
Its not only one boat as Circe has meanwhile a big network (ibncl. Commercials) that informs them about sighting too.
One Orca was already tagged, others will follow now.

This is good news about the tagging.


As an aside www.orca.pt is off line.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Authorities gave 2 weeks ago CIRCE/Renauld the official permission to tag 6 orcas of their choice to localize and broadcast the position to avoid attacks...
... One Orca was already tagged, others will follow now.

Meanwhile, in North America: In 2016, an Orca Was Killed by Satellite Tagging Complications

A rare male southern resident killer whale (orca ‘L95') that died earlier in 2016 (in British Columbia waters), was killed by an (fungal) infection, caused by satellite tagging, the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has confirmed.
This has prompted the NOAA to put a temporary ban on the tagging of endangered orcas.
This is the first confirmed orca death related to a satellite tag.

NOAA has released a report [1] and autopsy results concluding that a fungal infection killed the animal, after entering its bloodstream through the satellite tag. An expert panel of five independent researchers reviewed and confirmed the report's findings.

The report also suggested that human error might have contributed to the death of L-95. During the tagging process, the tag allegedly fell into the water, and was only cleaned with alcohol before being inserted into the animal - according to NOAA protocol, tags need to be cleaned with both bleach and alcohol.

Much more about ➥ https://www.sciencealert.com/it-s-of...-complications

[1] L95 Expert Panel Report ➥ https://www.scribd.com/document/3265...nel#from_embed

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You mean those who want to travel through the Straights of Gibraltar? That they have to go around Africa, fight the Pirates of Somalia, deal with the corrupted Suez Canal to get to/from the Mediterranean Sea just because you who do not need to sail your boat there ever, want to force everyone else to stay away from there as well?

I can tell you that I will sail my boat where I want and this in complete peace as long as I am not attacked.

What Mediterranean Sea?
The Mediterranean is doomed!

One day, the Mediterranean might dry up again*. If/when the Strait of Gibraltar closes, the Mediterranean would likely run dry in about 1,000 years.

Africa and Europe are slowly colliding, in a process that has lasted for 40m years, pushing up the Alps and Pyrenees along the way. This continental drift will continue long into the future, until 50m years from now, when the two continents meet, becoming one mega-continent: Eurafrica, and the Mediterranean will disappear — forever this time.

* Messinian salinity crisis: the Mediterranean Sea evaporated over a period of about 1,000 years, about 5.96 to 5.33 Ma (million years ago). The area turned into a dry basin, 3 to 5 km below sea level, punctuated with salty lakes similar to today’s Dead Sea. As slowly as the crisis set in, it ended with dramatic speed, about 5.3 million years ago, in a megaflood (Zanclean deluge) the likes of which the world had never seen.