KISS Boats???????????

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jammer

What about all the electrical gear that supports it?

what about it?

solar panels feeding batteries, you know the things I would still need even without the refrigeration

My refrigerator including all the electrical are KISS waaaaay beyond needing to haul ice or living on dried/canned food.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jammer

What about all the electrical gear that supports it?

What, you mean the pos/neg wires that run from the switch panel..
Or the solar/wind gen/engine that charges the batteries.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Face it, you're not a KISS sailor. It's OK!

who knows whether I am or not, so far it sounds like I am

[VanIslandGuy]

Cool thread topic...



In my local waters that means heat source. I have an espar hydronic, works awesome but definitely not KISS. Our old boat had a bulk head mounted diesel fireplace which was simpler, less current, etc. yet not as nice to keep all zones of the boat warm.

[sailorboy1]

Let me try to ask in a different way.

For those cruisers with a KISS boat, what systems/equipment do you NOT have that makes you believe your boat is KISS?

[conachair]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Let me try to ask in a different way.

For those cruisers with a KISS boat, what systems/equipment do you NOT have that makes you believe your boat is KISS?

Most of the equipment/systems isn't vital to the boat being seaworthy, different KISS

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I was reading the other day and the author was going on and on and on about how important it was to have a "keep it simple sailor" boat. Later he started talking about systems etc and near as I could tell he had pretty much all of the "standard" ones and even had a watermaker. Seemed that KISS to him was not having satellite TV.

We read here on CF people writing over and over and over about having a "simple" boat. Yet they seem to have what I consider the "normal" stuff" plus other things that they have justified as "not counting".

My boat has "standard" systems of: pressure water, chartplotter, autopilot, windlass, inverter, hot water, furling headsail and these things rarely require any maintenance. It doesn't have AIS, radar, watermaker, working generator, electric winches. By far the most anti-kiss thing on my boat has been the POS diesel generator and it finally has died so now I don't need to fix it anymore.

So just what is a KISS boat? What system does it have or don't have. What systems/items are the KISS people willing to do without because they may have to fix it once in a while? You KISS boat cruisers let's hear what systems you do and don't have on your boat as I have a feeling the differences are small.

I'm chuckling because I would say that our boat has definitely become less simple over the past twelve months of cruising. We switched the hank-on to a furler, we've added an Engel, and we installed an electric windlass before we left (because of Mr. Cthoops' lifting restrictions, but one year into this I can say we would have added it anyway). We're also adding an electronic autopilot for those times when we can't use the Monitor.

So what do we have left that others would consider simple? Composting head (took out the marine head), 12V electrical system only (we removed the shore power), Origo stove, no pressure water, no hot water heater (took that one out too), no electric winches, no generator. We won't be changing any of those things because we don't feel they negatively impact our quality of life.

Given what we have, I wouldn't consider our boat to be a KISS boat, but I wouldn't call it complex either.

[Mike OReilly]

KISS to me is about having systems that are either extremely reliable OR are able to be maintained and repaired by the crew. So it's not a 'one-size-fits-all' setup that makes one boat KISSy and another not.

Those with greater skills or resources can have more complicated systems and still be very KISSy. My electrician friend has a much more complicated electrical system, but he is still very KISS.

So, as with most of these questions, the answer is: It depends.

For the record, my boat has a windvane and an electric tiller pilot. It has a no electric winches, including a manual windlass. Water pumps are both manual and electrical (pressure). No hot water. No watermaker. Refrigeration. Solar & wind generators. Composting head. Electronics include plotter, depth, speed, wind. VHF with AIS Rx. Radar.

I strive for KISS, but don't always achieve.

[wingssail]

Let me start with a simple philosophy:

I don't mind my toys to be complex, but the important stuff should be simple and we're not camping out.

Simple, fixable, and transparent in their operation. And I avoid anything which detracts from the efficient sailing of the vessel (which slows it down).

I am particularly adverse to adding something "to make it easier" if it involves more parts and complexity. (lazy jacks, for an example)


That's just us and our approach, but I can say that we've stuck to it for 33 years and it's working well for us.

Our boat is a sloop, fin keel, spade rudder, tiller steered, windvane.

We have refer (electric) with a freezer compartment, watermaker (small), inverter, solar panels, pressure water (and pressure salt water), and excellent shower, propane hot water, good electronics and computer equipment (we run all of it connected to a PC, of which we carry spares) and an anchor windlass.

We have an electric tiller pilot, and plenty of spares for that and other equipment.

What we don't have is modern sail handling equipment (no furler, no lazy acks, no slides or slugs, no sock or chute tube), no staysail, trysail, mast steps, climbing harness, etc etc.. No drogue, sea anchor, etc.

No hard dodger, no permanent bimini, and NOTHING on the deck. No arch, no radar, no dingy davits, no motor crane, one anchor on the bow, no jerry jugs. No flopper stoppers, no downriggers.

Limited electronics management (no electronic battery management system, etc). no satellite comms.

Heat, which we rarely need, is drip feed diesel.

Many people will not consider our boat to be KISS. I guess I am very selective which I make that claim. But to me it is.

We've lived here for 33 years, still sail constantly. Our boat is fast, and the simplicity makes it EASIER, and we have the following motto "We arrive clean, well rested, and first"

View it as simple or otherwise, it all works and I can fix almost all of it, and when something breaks I know exactly what it is, instantly and we're totally comfortable living here and cruising, forever.

[Tetepare]

NO exterior wood. That would save me many many hours.

Maintenance upkeep makes a big difference. Most things break out of neglect.

[sailorboy1]

Sounding to me that the KISS boat is really a myth even though the buzz phase likes to be thrown around. So maybe it is time to put away the "simple boat" phase and come up with something else. Something that represents that you have "systems" but can do without them if needed. Something hopefully catchy sounding. Maybe we all just have CRAP boats (can repair at port)

[jjernigan1972]

I think my boat is fairly close to KISS.

I sail an Alberg 30. The inboard engine has been removed and a 6hp has been added to a well in what used to be the lazarette.

I have 300 amp/hr batteries charged by 2 55 watt solar panels. I have a Norvane wind vane and two tiller pilots. I have a chart plotter, VHF w/AIS, and a AIS transponder for electronics, none are integrated or require the others to work.

I use a primus Kerosene stove, I carry a complete spare stove along with numerous burners and spare parts.

I have a manual windlass.

A composting head.

I do have some less KISS type things too. I have a roller furling headsail and another roller furling jib top for very light winds. I have the smallest engel fridge, which I plan to use for mostly cold drinks when power allows. I use LEDs for interior and Nav lights.

I know people are out sailing with less. I think it comes down to what you decide you can live without. If you try to bring the comforts and stuff from your land based life to your boat life things get complicated quickly.

I'm hopeful my simple boat will require less time fixing stuff which will allow me more time to explore and visit the places I cruise.

[Jammer]

Top ten warning signs that your boat might not be KISS

1. Saildrive
2. Air conditioning
3. Deflatable dinghy
4. Motorized winches
5. Bow thruster
6. Inverter
7. Hydraulic backstay adjuster. Also, running backstays
8. Lithium batteries
9. Water heater
10. More than one head

[sailorboy1]

I think people confuse KISS with CBE ................................. (Comfortable Boat Envy).

[rvich]

For my purposes KISS means not bringing anything on board that I have to pay someone else to fix. Electronics are a gray area as I am not going to diagnose and repair something like a chart plotter. But I can at least understand how to install the units and trouble shoot the system.