KISS Boats???????????

[Paul L]

For a cruising boat you can compare it to the KISS house. Outhouse, open well with bucket, kerosene lamps and wood or upscale coal stove. Donkey powered wagon for supply trips to town.

[Junglebike]

Originally Posted by GILow

My definition of a KISS boat is not one that is with or without any particular level of equipment, but instead is one that only has the equipment that is needed and USED.

I see many, many boat lugging around old systems that no longer work or are redundant due to system upgrades. Wiring that goes nowhere, rigging bits that no longer serve a purpose or never really worked on the first place.

There seems to be a very great reluctance on cruising boats to REMOVE stuff when it is no longer needed, as though somehow carrying around a depth sounder from the dinosaur age is proof of how salty you are.

Sometimes I hear this being justified in terms of “well, what if my new depth sounder fails?” or “I might need to install something electrical there one day, and the wires will be ready to go.” But if the depth sounder fails, you’ll get a new one, and if you EVER install a new electrical device in that position, chances are the wires will be rusted out or the wrong gauge anyway.

Meanwhile, any trouble shooting is made impossible by a rat’s near of old wires and the boat is three inches lower in the water from carrying so much crap.

Question for you: my boat has a shore power only 120v electric hot water heater and associated plumbing. They lived aboard so it made sense. It’s in good repair but we have never used it and likely never will. I’ve been debating pulling the whole mess out including all the hot water plumbing.

Would you do it? I don’t really need the locker space but like to keep things simple.

[model 10]

The KISS boat these days has all the solar they can afford and a wind generator. A regular head that dumps ovbd, LED lights and a refer. A depth finder or 2 and 3 or 4 GPS's. An 8hp rib instead of a 15hp. There is no limit this KISS idea.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Junglebike

Question for you: my boat has a shore power only 120v electric hot water heater and associated plumbing. They lived aboard so it made sense. It’s in good repair but we have never used it and likely never will. I’ve been debating pulling the whole mess out including all the hot water plumbing.



Would you do it? I don’t really need the locker space but like to keep things simple.

I would remove it, based on the following:

a) it is not serving any practical purpose.

b) it is hindering the performance of the boat from the added weight. (Yes, I concede, it does not weigh all that much on its own, but this stuff adds up. According my waterline calculation, my boat is now more than two TONS lighter than when I bought her, and that’s mostly from removing redundant junk.)

c) it, and its associated plumbing are most likely making it harder to get to something important that does need maintenance.

d) this one is a bit subtle, but I think old systems like this stop us from seeing new ways of arranging the boat that may work much better. I certainly work much better from a blank slate.

YMMV.

Matt

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by GILow

I would remove it, based on the following:

a) it is not serving any practical purpose.

b) it is hindering the performance of the boat from the added weight. (Yes, I concede, it does not weigh all that much on its own, but this stuff adds up. According my waterline calculation, my boat is now more than two TONS lighter than when I bought her, and that’s mostly from removing redundant junk.)

Depends on the boat and the poster makes no mention that I saw of what he has.
A multihull hates weight, larger ones less so
A small mono can be affected, larger ones less so.
Something like ours, the more weight the better. I still have over 1000kg of old batteries below as the extra weight helps. Even better when we have the full 12000kg of fuel and water.

Add: reading back I see 44lb Bruce anchor mentioned so guessing something around 35ft so yes, getting rid of weight probably good.

[Jolly Roger]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I think people confuse KISS with CBE ................................. (Comfortable Boat Envy).

Sailorby1 has it right here, which I agree with.
I have built the most un-KISSable boat imaginable, with some systems nobody else has. As a consequence it is also one of the most comfortable small boats around - so I'm told by those with CBE.
I generally believe in, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" but when something breaks I just fix it. That's the price you pay for being un-KISSable and comfortable.
Like most things on boats, it's just a matter of personal preference.

[Junglebike]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Depends on the boat and the poster makes no mention that I saw of what he has.
A multihull hates weight, larger ones less so
A small mono can be affected, larger ones less so.
Something like ours, the more weight the better. I still have over 1000kg of old batteries below as the extra weight helps. Even better when we have the full 12000kg of fuel and water.

Add: reading back I see 44lb Bruce anchor mentioned so guessing something around 35ft so yes, getting rid of weight probably good.

Thanks guys. I just edited my header info to reflect that it's a First 405 - 41' 1987 cruiser/racer, about 18,000lbs as drawn, about 20,000lbs last time it was hauled.

Matt, I like your philosophy & think I will pull the system for the reasons you provide.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Depends on the boat and the poster makes no mention that I saw of what he has.
A multihull hates weight, larger ones less so
A small mono can be affected, larger ones less so.
Something like ours, the more weight the better. I still have over 1000kg of old batteries below as the extra weight helps. Even better when we have the full 12000kg of fuel and water.

Add: reading back I see 44lb Bruce anchor mentioned so guessing something around 35ft so yes, getting rid of weight probably good.

Weight in the right place can help, particularly on a mono, but unless the weight is below the waterline on any boat it is going to mess with the boat’s motion at sea in a bad way.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Junglebike

Thanks guys. I just edited my header info to reflect that it's a First 405 - 41' 1987 cruiser/racer, about 18,000lbs as drawn, about 20,000lbs last time it was hauled.



Matt, I like your philosophy & think I will pull the system for the reasons you provide.

Glad to have contributed, but as they say, all care and no responsibility. [emoji6]. But yes, I certainly think a Benny will thank you for keeping it light

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I think people confuse KISS with CBE ................................. (Comfortable Boat Envy).

Yet to envy anyones boat.. admire maybe but thats something else entirely.
I buy what I want at the time.. but times change and my boats with them.

[Happ]

It's in the eyes of the beholder. Where do you cruise? How long do you go out for? Do you live on your boat and not move? How big is your boat? How many people onboard? The list goes on. This why when you buy a bit new or used we spend money to outfit, upgrade, modify or make it ours. Each one of us have different skills to fix different things. What one would say is a good sail another might say has to be replaced. The list goes on.

[Sailwithscott]

A Kiss boat to me is one that each system is independent of others and can easily be worked on or replaced, electrical systems should be high and away from the bilge,

No propane, an all-electric galley. Single fuel for all uses. solar panel, wind generator, watt, and sea hydro generator all charge a Lithium-ion battery with an inverter charger to run all your needs. plug the charger into the dock power to protect all onboard systems.

Engel refrigerator, tiller pilot, 110v angle drill for power winch all make life easy.
5k 110volt AC window unit cools the boat and does not need to have a through-the hull open to run, so you can leave it running while you are away from the boat.

KISS is so you can repair or replace everything without needing outside assistance.

[sailorboy1]

That doesn’t sound very kiss to me.

I think maybe it’s time for everyone to just accept that a kiss sailboat boat is:
- no engine
- no electric/electronics of any kind

But in the modern cruising world there aren’t any kiss boats and we should just stop throwing around the meaningless term.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

That doesn’t sound very kiss to me.

I think maybe it’s time for everyone to just accept that a kiss sailboat boat is:
- no engine
- no electric/electronics of any kind

But in the modern cruising world there aren’t any kiss boats and we should just stop throwing around the meaningless term.

Think of KISS as a relative, rather than an absolute reference point.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Think of KISS as a relative, rather than an absolute reference point.

Exactly. It’s as I’ve said, KISS is relative to the crew’s capabilities (skills, time and resources). A KISS boat for my highly skilled friend is not a KISS boat for me.

See, it’s simple … you could even say this is a KISSy kind of answer .