% legal holding tank dumping?

[Jack C]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Nobody is justifying any amount of dumping, just pointing out that the tiny amount a boater dumps pales in comparison with other sources. We all excrete waste and you may find it comforting to assume that your waste isn’t part of the problem because it magically disappears from your view and into a municipal treatment plant, and maybe that’s why you feel threatened to learn about these treatment plants dumping more than all boaters combined? If you’re not in a congested area, dumping human waste is as natural and harmless as any other animal doing the same thing.

Agreed, the amount of waste dumped at sea by cruisers is swamped by a few whales pooping. In addition, many cities have common storm and sewage systems and due to this dump enormous amounts of water and sewage after heavy rains. Very common in Israel.

I take issue with dumping directly into Marinas especially when free pump out is available. Its not pleasant to see and smell poop around your boat and having to decontaminate every time you lift a messenger line. Of course it feeds the fish community who keep my hull pretty clean when poop is not available.
It also attracts fisher folks whose lines get tangled in my prop. As the fisher folk keep on changing, maybe they are getting sick or dying from E- Coli?

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Nobody is justifying any amount of dumping, just pointing out that the tiny amount a boater dumps pales in comparison with other sources. We all excrete waste and you may find it comforting to assume that your waste isn’t part of the problem because it magically disappears from your view and into a municipal treatment plant, and maybe that’s why you feel threatened to learn about these treatment plants dumping more than all boaters combined? If you’re not in a congested area, dumping human waste is as natural and harmless as any other animal doing the same thing.

First, I don't "feel threatened" not do I believe in anything "magical", quite frankly those were completely gratuitous comments made soley to provoke and I have to ask you what you hoped to accomplish with that?

Second, it couldn't be more clear that both the person I was responding to and you in this post are justifying dumping because it "pales in comparison" to other sources. No matter how you try to dress that logic up, it's not only irrational but harmful.

Finally, I have a pretty good grasp of how both the aerobic and anaerobic sewage treatment plants that process my waste work. If you feel they are the same as dumping raw sewage or even even electrosan treated sewage into the bay, you clearly do not. Nothing "magical", it's a clearly defined process I encourage you to read up on if you wish to engage in intelligent conversations on the matter. I spend a significant amount of my volunteer efforts on reducing nutrient loads in the Chesapeake. This includes working with farmers and golf courses as well as trying to get grants for municipal systems that have storm overflow issues. And I also don't dump my poop in the Bay. Knowing that there are big issues out there in no way alleviates my need to take responsibility for my waste. To the contrary, how can I ask a farmer to make efforts to keep a Bay clean he never even sees if I can't be bothered to do my part?

Speaking of questionable logic, given that "dumping human waste is as natural and harmless as any other animal doing the same thing.", you will have no problem when someone depositing their feces in the ditch in front of your house? Somehow all you "but the animals do it" folks can never seem to answer that very inconvenient question.

[JC Reefer]

It’s pretty nasty but I’m sure 99.99% of the boats in Miami illegally dump. People hardly leave the bay. Pump outs are a pain or unavailable to those on anchor or mooring.

If it were 1 boat then it really would not be an issue but we have thousands of boaters out here. Can’t be good.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Speaking of questionable logic, given that "dumping human waste is as natural and harmless as any other animal doing the same thing.", you will have no problem when someone depositing their feces in the ditch in front of your house? Somehow all you "but the animals do it" folks can never seem to answer that very inconvenient question.

I would have no problem with that if the proportions were similar. So given the amount of poo discharged into the water of an open ocean or bay vs the amount into a ditch or even my driveway, you can drop 2 eyedroppers worth of it.

Have you ever visited India? 800 million people poop outside every day there. Now, that's a problem.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

We all excrete waste and you may find it comforting to assume that your waste isn’t part of the problem because it magically disappears from your view and into a municipal treatment plant,.

You mean Mother nature didn't have a plan for this ?

[Mike OReilly]

Whether we send it through a municipal waste system, or open the valve and flush it out to sea, the magical thinking comes in believing we have no impact on our environment. We always do... just like all animals.

To live is to draw resources from, and add pollution to, the ecosystem in which we live. But most of us are trained to 'flush and forget' about how our excrement is handled. This is why simple rules like not dumping within 3 nm is in place; so we don't have to think.

There's nothing wrong with dumping over the side in areas of good volume and decent flow. In fact, it's probably better than sending it through a treatment plant. But if you're in an area, like a confined anchorage or marina, and especially if there are many other boats around, dumping over the side can definitely impact the local ecosystem.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Nobody is justifying any amount of dumping....

If you’re not in a congested area, dumping human waste is as natural and harmless as any other animal doing the same thing.

I smell self-contradiction

But anyway, can we agree on what is a congested area?

The head discharge laws are what they are mainly for ease of enforcement. It's near impossible to catch perpetrators in the act; the easiest move is to specify an arbitrary area (eg 3 miles), and fine people in that area who are set to discharge. Since the weekenders and daytrippers seldom venture past the 3 mile line, most of them will hopefully resign themselves to using the tank and getting pumpouts.

[Montanan]

Finally, photographic evidence that bears do poop in the forest.

[Boatwright]

Here on the Great Lakes, lakes Michigan, Huron, Ontario, and Erie, pump-outs are plentiful and inexpensive -- $10 or less. Lake Superior few and far between, but so are cruisers.

I notice however that our local "Waste your Money Marine" store has macerator pumps complete with an intake nozzle designed to plug right into one's deck pump-out fitting. I suspect that many away from the marinas cruisers with small holding tanks pump out offshore after dark. In practice considering the huge volume of these lakes and the generally well oxygenated water (except for L. Erie) this is not a real problem.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Palarran

I would have no problem with that if the proportions were similar. So given the amount of poo discharged into the water of an open ocean or bay vs the amount into a ditch or even my driveway, you can drop 2 eyedroppers worth of it.

Have you ever visited India? 800 million people poop outside every day there. Now, that's a problem.

Let's be clear, the logic is if an animal can do it, we can do it. So a fox or a goose poops on your lawn, you'd find it annoying. I deposit the same amount of my poop on your lawn, you call the police.

And again for what now the 7th time among posters here, in what universe does the fact that you can name a big problem with sewage somewhere in the world have to do with you and my personal responsibility for our own sewage?

They also drive like maniacs in India and have horrible road safety numbers, by your logic that has some relevance on if I should drive like a maniac? As long as I don't do so quite as egregiously as there, what it's somehow OK because...India? The fact that so many people think this way is really depressing.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Let's be clear, the logic is if an animal can do it, we can do it. So a fox or a goose poops on your lawn, you'd find it annoying. I deposit my poop on your lawn, you call the police.

And again for what now the 7th time among posters here, in what universe does the fact that you can name a big problem with sewage somewhere in the world have to do with you and my personal responsibility for our own sewage?

You do as you want. I'm going to also. And that includes releasing my holding tanks where it's not a problem - IMO. Over 50% of people admit to peeing in a pool - I don't like it but it hasn't prevented me from swimming or gotten me sick. As I said earlier, the number who do is probably much, much higher than anyone will admit because most simply lie - either to others or themselves. Also as pointed out by others - this is mostly a North America problem. There are no pumpout facilities in the Caribbean, Bahamas, or Med (except Turkey), or the ROW as far as I know. Every single boat there is discharging their waste and a whole lot, by far the majority, are not doing it all that far off shore. Very few care. I sure don't.

[Palarran]

Ooop's.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/17-millio...033744324.html

[boatpoker]

Clearly the volume of poop generated by 8 billion people is too much.
We should stop paying people to have babies til' we get down to 3 billion or so.

[dannc]

I have had numerous people pee and poop on my road.

I don't call the sheriff on them for doing so even though the idiots are trespassing.

I do wish they would bury their scat and used paper though. You know, dispose of it properly.

One guy used an old T shirt to clean his a...s. That was not going to rot away quickly so I put the soiled T shirt on his equipment trailer. He got the point.

What is far worse is the a... holes that dump trash on my place. I would call the sheriff if it would have been possible to catch them.

Later,
Dan

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Can't really say. I know in the Great Lakes I never knew of anyone NOT getting legally pumped out, but I'm sure it does happen.

Maybe on the Canadian side...but really didn't notice significantly different habits on saltwater vs freshwater. The pumpouts don't get used nearly enough to cover all the boats on the water, so I'm betting a strong majority dump on the lakes.

Of course, get out a few miles and not much difference in the impact fresh vs salt even if it's not legal.

This really is a situation where the old slogan "the solution to pollution is dilution" really applies. Dispersed widely in open water, it quickly breaks down and causes no issues. It's when it's concentrated that sewage becomes an issue. Particularly if that concentration is in close proximity to people in the water.

Really is a situation where targeted laws that focus on the underlying issue would make far more sense and get better compliance than over reach laws that make it difficult to comply. When you set up rules that are difficult to comply with, you can't be shocked when people don't comply and once people stop complying many will take it to the point where it does cause issues (such as dumping in the marina rather than a mile or two offshore).