Legitimate Bluewater Question

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by colemj

Our boat has an auxiliary engine - some days it is the port engine and some days it is the starboard engine…
Mark

I thought You have auxiliary hull either... But may be I was heavily mistaken

[colemj]

I think of it more as a "training hull". That way I have a plausible excuse for posting on a "blue water boat" thread.

Mark

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Part of the general idea of not using the machinery in really bad conditions. Many other bad things besides can happen to the machinery when you're being thrown around on a rough sea.

I don't see why a cavitation prop in itself is an issue, the stern tube certainly shouldn't fail. The cutlass bearing will be sufficiently lubricated as will the packing gland. Running at low revs should present no issue. And that has been my experience

If the machinery becomes an issue in heavy seas , it will be an issue whether its running or not

Dave

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I don't see why a cavitation prop in itself is an issue, the stern tube certainly shouldn't fail. The cutlass bearing will be sufficiently lubricated as will the packing gland. Running at low revs should present no issue. And that has been my experience

If the machinery becomes an issue in heavy seas , it will be an issue whether its running or not

Dave

How about this: when your prop comes out of the water in heavy seas the load on the engine is reduced, so the RPM's temporarily jump way up. And, the prop is loaded asymmetrically as the blades dip in and out of the water, causing a bending force and vibration on the shaft, stern tube, coupling, mounts, etc. I can see how this could damage things.

But I'm just guessing.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

How do you folks feel about motorsailing during the heavy winds and blowing swell? We've heard from the motor and not sail group, and the sail and not motor crowd. We spend so much time successfully motorsailing around the Med. due to lack of wind. Would motorsailing under storm sails be the answer? Seems like it might help with steering. Your opinions?

'Just a shot in the dark to get the thread back on topic.

To motor sail or not in heavy weather conditions?

There is no simple all inclusive answer, just an ever changing set of determining factors and priorities based on your situational awareness.

Firstly, the prop-cavitation argument is a red herring which ignores the reality of every well maintained power vessel successfully transiting heavy weather with due attention to hull speed and a conservative rpm. ((If your power train is that lightly made, you should cross your fingers every time you go in reverse and I suggest you do a conservative crash stop as a test)

Also fluctuations in your Oil/Temp gauges will tell you if you are stressing your marine engine. They are normally fitted with deep sumps and deep cooling intakes in a heavy displacement blue water craft. In the dynamics of a seaway, they can take a lot more than what warranty engineers will admit to and in any case if you see fluctuations, reducing Speed, RPM. or Heel by changing aspect, will normally address the problem.

Having skippered a number of motor sailors (from 15 to 60m) in and around named storms this is how I would normally manage a heavy weather (HW) situation:

1…. Prepare boat and crew early for HW by setting up storm sails and provisions, explaining what the next 36 hrs. are going to be like and what our plan is?

2…. Supplement reduced sails with Main Engine, initially high rpm testing for over temp or any chafe issue and a test of all alarms. Then you motor sail at conservative speed which is balanced for comfort and your preferred destination, while you rest the crew.

3…. As wind/sea state increase, sails are the first to be reduced in time without stressing the crew. Using your diesel propulsion to optimize heading and comfort for deck work helps.

4… Assuming conditions have not become a survival scenario and you can still safely be on deck to make way in a controlled fashion, I would already be reduced to minimum storm sail and testing for optimum speed for steering and handling sea conditions…. with and without the use of engine in gear.

5… If lots of sea room and no traffic, I would prefer to use sail only, so that I have a better sense of the True Wind conditions and the sounds the yacht is making. But optimum collision avoidance control is my priority, so if in a busy traffic area, I am motor sailing.

6…. If safe to approach a protected anchorage, the main engine would be on and tested long before needed, then engaged and the sail(s) set more for steadying function rather than propulsion.

7… I am then motor sailing with optimum control and ready to sail or motor out of trouble as I plot the anticipated wind- bullets or current changes of harbor entry conditions

[smackdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I'd like to pose the following question that I believe is asked by many cruisers on this forum:

If I get caught out in a situation like the boat in Video "A" on our boat (place manufacturer name & model here)... will I end up looking like the boat in Video "B"? What can be done to prevent or minimize the possibility of it happening to me?

Video "A"

Video "B"

My wife and I spent two years researching sailboats before deciding on our present boat; I think may sailors on this forum do the same when choosing an appropriate vessel for their adventures. I don't wish to "stir the pot" with the thread becoming a "my boat is better than your boat" or "all boats are the same" kind of discussion. But rather, I'd like to have folks make suggestions on how any boat might be improved in order to weather the unexpected, or thoughts on how daysailors and coastal cruising boats will be OK for 95% of the time... even for world travel.

I'll start it out by suggesting from our experience, that a boat designed primarily for coastal cruising and entertaining like the many Beneteau Sense cruisers we see in the Med., would be just fine for a world tour. If weekend entertaining is what you'll be doing most of the time, buy the boat best for that purpose, then if you wish to cross and ocean... one can always have the boat shipped to a new coastal cruising ground. This solution would be much cheaper than outfitting a vessel for full time cruising.

Please be constructive and positive in your comments.

Ken

My take...this is easy...

If you're out at sea like boat A - most boats, even a "coastal" Beneteau Sense, will likely be okay as long as they are sailed well.

If you're anchored up against a lee shore in the surf in a hurricane like boat B was, you'll likely be on the shore even in a "blue water" Oyster.

[RDW]

Kenomac, That is one of the more intelligent alternatives to not having enough money to have the very best blue water boat thereby staying at home wishing for more. It would be interesting to see what kinds of boats are actually shipped. I bet a good number would be boats that could easily make the trip but the owners just did not want the wear and tear on the boat and themselves.
RDW

[Kenomac]

My own felling towards shipping the boat, is that $20,000 is about the price point where shipping costs roughly the same as sailing the boat across the Atlantic. When one considers the time off work cost for 4-5 people, provisioning, air travel expenses and fuel. Then when one adds the cost of likely wear and tear on the yacht systems, breakage, the actual cost to sail across increases to more like $30,000.

I priced having a delivery crew sail our boat across to the Caribbean and then up to New England a couple of seasons ago, the cost would have been approximately $20,000 contracting a private delivery captain, first mate and supplying two personal friends with experience.


I know it seems like sailing across saves money, but it really doesn't. One has to really want to do it.

[zeehag]

kenomac. it isnt the boat. it is YOU. pratice and make yourself ready for the misadventure of a lifetime. the more and better prepared YOU are, the better you will get thru whatever happens out there. err, here.....

if ifs and ands were pots and pans all drunken sailors would have a side job.

learn everything. sail in shitweather
practice practice practice and KNOW what your boat will do and how it will do it BEFORE you are hit by a chubasco broadside at 0400 on a leee shore on a dark and moonless night.

you will be fine. i found the scenario i placed is easier than the omygodsastormingom of severe intensity(winds over 70 kts). we sailed those with roller furled headsail only.
we earned about the boxy nsty shape of close to shore seas on a continental shelf-- dont wanna go there again....and everything including the marching elephants and spouting seas in the distance and what these mean.oops ...lol
was very good experience. that sailor used magenta lion like a religious object. no deviation--we hit every storm in gom off florida for a near year. 11 months of heavy weather sailing practice. was a fairly light weight performahce type coastal cruiser sloop.

look at markj--he sailed rtw in bendytoy... omygod he shouldadied


sounds like you having buttterflies for departure. when do you set out??

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by zeehag

kenomac. it isnt the boat. it is YOU. pratice and make yourself ready for the misadventure of a lifetime. the more and better prepared YOU are, the better you will get thru whatever happens out there. err, here.....

if ifs and ands were pots and pans all drunken sailors would have a side job.

learn everything. sail in shitweather
practice practice practice and KNOW what your boat will do and how it will do it BEFORE you are hit by a chubasco broadside at 0400 on a leee shore on a dark and moonless night.

you will be fine....

......sounds like you having buttterflies for departure. when do you set out??

Zee,

I first began this thread over a year ago when I was considering bringing the boat across last March/April (2014) via a delivery crew, since then our plans have changed. We now plan to stay in the Med for at least the next 4-5 years. When the time comes to cross an ocean, my wife and I will be fully retired from work and will have the time to do it ourselves with some added assistance from friends eager for the adventure. I feel confident that we along with our boat are presently up for the adventure, but there's no sense of urgency like last year, and the year before. There's plenty to see over here prior to anchoring along side you in Mexico.... which we are also looking forward to on our way into the South Pacific.

Geez.... there's so much to see and so little time. But we're not in a hurry; we still have to visit Greece, more of Italy, Croatia, Turkey, Corsica, more of Sardinia, Southern France, etc. etc.


This old thread came back to life earlier today when someone posted.

[zeehag]

ok . i didnt look at he year of thread--oops my bad.
yeah, there is so much to see and do to only spend a day here and a day there...
awesomest!