Life Raft Discussion.... Yes or No?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

People in a life raft in cold rough water have no problem freezing to death. Some people need the placebo effect of a life raft to go sailing and that's fine with me. If you're serious about safety and the facts then it's a different matter.

What? What language is this even?

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

It doesn't take 5 days to get across the Chesapeake Bay, even in a 21 footer.

Horses for courses -- of course not everyone needs a life raft. 20 years of sailing in warm water and rarely out of sight of land around Florida, we never felt the need for a raft.

Blue water, especially cold blue water -- that's a different use case. It's silly to project the needs of one use case on circumstances of a different one.

If you can't get a weather forecast while on passage you might want to reconsider making passages past your weather forecast window or invest in that capability instead of a life raft. IMHO that would be the RATIONAL decision.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What? What language is this even?

WOW, do you always need to resort to ridicule when things don't go your way? You have a bad habit of that and it really makes you look like an ................

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

If you can't get a weather forecast while on passage you might want to reconsider making passages past your weather forecast window or invest in that capability instead of a life raft. IMHO that would be the RATIONAL decision.

And when 10 days from safe harbor, what do you do with a forecast that calls for bad weather?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

WOW, do you always need to resort to ridicule when things don't go your way? You have a bad habit of that and it really makes you look like an ................

My post was entirely sincere, and there was no ridicule involved. I have no idea what you were talking about. But, really, never mind.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

If you can't get a weather forecast while on passage you might want to reconsider making passages past your weather forecast window or invest in that capability instead of a life raft. IMHO that would be the RATIONAL decision.

What does weather have to do with it? Weather is the cause of a relatively small percentage of abandoning.

And what concerns "making passages beyond your forecast window" -- do you know how long it takes to get across the Atlantic West to East? And how long are forecasts valid for? It's a simple calculation.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

What does weather have to do with it? Weather is the cause of a relatively small percentage of abandoning.

And what concerns "making passages beyond your forecast window" -- do you know how long it takes to get across the Atlantic West to East? And how long are forecasts valid for? It's a simple calculation.

Then why did you bring it up?

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My post was entirely sincere, and there was no ridicule involved. I have no idea what you were talking about. But, really, never mind.

And there is no ridicule involved when I recommend you never step off the dock onto a boat.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

WOW, do you always need to resort to ridicule when things don't go your way? You have a bad habit of that and it really makes you look like an ................

Hog wash!

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I think this is a good analysis.

By the way, a serious crash pump doesn't cost $2000. I think we put ours together for about 1/4 of that sum, including the folding fire hose and the special wiring for it. So I doubt that anyone actually chooses between a raft and a crash pump. Generally it's people choosing between spending some time thinking and working on safety, and not spending the effort, in my experience, as I've written.

I think pumping is a much neglected safety angle -- many boaters think that bilge pumps will do what you need for pumps to do in a flooding emergency, but they won't.

Please describe your pump and how you built it. Here in NZ all complete higher capacity de-watering pumps are well over 2k NZD. Thanks

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Please describe your pump and how you built it. Here in NZ all complete higher capacity de-watering pumps are well over 2k NZD. Thanks

A gas powered one would be best. https://powerequipment.honda.com/pum...watering-pumps

You can use engine raw water pump and inlet valve to pump out water also. https://www.groco.net/products/valve...ervice-adaptor

An electric pump is subject to electrical system being functional and has limited capacity.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Please describe your pump and how you built it. Here in NZ all complete higher capacity de-watering pumps are well over 2k NZD. Thanks

Sure.

My pump is a heavy duty construction site submersible trash pump, with a giant macerator. It has a 2.2kW motor and 3" discharge. It weighs as much as my outboard motor and came in a wooden crate from Germany.

The macerator is crucial because in flooding emergencies, all kinds of debris ends up in the bilge, and the common failure mode is the pumps clog. The water is rising, the crew are busy looking for the leak, and then on top of that they need to try to dive in and unclog the pump -- they get overwhelmed.

This is one of two reasons why bilge pumps, even monster ones like my two Rule 4000's, are not capable of mastering flooding emergencies (the other being that their capacity ratings are pure fantasy).

It is not realistic to fix-install such a pump, complete with fixed discharge line, and you wouldn't want to, because it is even more likely that your pump will be called upon to save someone else's boat, than yours -- you want it to be mobile. It can also be used as a fire pump -- hang it off the end of the boom.

The hose is a folding fire hose, complete with fireman's nozzle for fire pump duty.


Now comes the tricky part, and why my arrangement won't work for everyone -- how to power it. It just so happens that my generator is mounted on a platform above the main engine, quite a bit higher than the waterline. I have installed a special bypass switch to disconnect the generator from the boat's AC power system so that it feeds only a special waterproof socket into which I plug the pump. The big 2.2kW motor needs probably 5kW to start, but my generator is 6.5kW and deals with it easily.

Other ways to power the crash pump might be a gasoline motor -- you can buy construction site pumps with Honda engines, for example. This has a great advantage of being completely self contained and not dependent on any other system, but a big minus is that you can't store it inside the hull volume (because of gasoline vapours) and if you don't use it regularly, the carb will gum up and it won't start.

A diesel one would avoid those problems, but those are massively heavy and many cruising boats just won't find space.


I don't know why dewatering pumps cost $2k in NZ. Here in the UK the professionals all use construction site pumps, which cost quite a bit less than that.

[davil]

Not interested on discussing pros and cons as they are clearly presented here.
For those interested on having one,just received my brand new Viking,price very good,quality seems tops and delivery faster than estimated date.
My daughter just returned of vacationing in Norway and when boarding a Ferry noticed on the photo the logo of Viking on the safety station!
Seems many commercial firms use the Viking line.
Anyways here is the person I worked with,nice,attentive and excellent service.

Brian J. Kinsella Sr. <BJK@Viking-Life.com>

[fxykty]

Good suggestion, I’ll look for portable petrol 3” trash pumps. For sure cheaper than the specialised marine pumps I was looking at.

[CarlF]

Dinghy or life raft, I would add an InReach to provide robust two-way communication with SAR. It addresses the obvious weaknesses of satphone (not waterproof and glitchy) and EPIRB (one way. No way to know if help is coming) I carry an EPIRB too. But I would no longer go to sea without an InReach.