Life Raft Discussion.... Yes or No?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I'd like to get some suggestions on Drogues and ground tackle for use on a rubber dinghy/life raft.

Dinghy and life raft are two entirely different animals.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Dinghy and life raft are two entirely different animals.

Hmmmmmm..... I was planning on multi purposing the dinghy. With an EPIRB I could reasonably expect rescue in a few hours couldn't I? Might even set off an expired flare or two if necessary.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Hmmmmmm..... I was planning on multi purposing the dinghy. With an EPIRB I could reasonably expect rescue in a few hours couldn't I? Might even set off an expired flare or two if necessary.

They are called fireworks. Nobody throws them away.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Hmmmmmm..... I was planning on multi purposing the dinghy. With an EPIRB I could reasonably expect rescue in a few hours couldn't I? Might even set off an expired flare or two if necessary.

Why bother, you can probably just swim ashore from anywhere in your extensive "cruising grounds".

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Dinghy and life raft are two entirely different animals.

Depends what kind of dinghy we are talking about. The dilemma in this discussion lies in the fact that nobody knows what kind of dinghy the other participants actually mean.
I dare to say that no liferaft is par with a full blooded lifeboat. The question is what kind of "life dinghy" is adaquate compared to a liferaft.

Teddy

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by StuM

Why bother, you can probably just swim ashore from anywhere in your extensive "cruising grounds".

Thanks for your expert input. I'm probably just overly cautious, a whistle and life jacket would be all that's necessary.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Depends what kind of dinghy we are talking about. The dilemma in this discussion lies in the fact that nobody knows what kind of dinghy the other participants actually mean.
I dare to say that no liferaft is par with a full blooded lifeboat. The question is what kind of "life dinghy" is adaquate compared to a liferaft.

Teddy

Teddy, I believe he has a 22footer. Nothing wrong with that, just doesn't seem to click with life raft vs. dinghy conversation as if you have the option?

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Thanks for your expert input. I'm probably just overly cautious, a whistle and life jacket would be all that's necessary.

And a waterproof VHF, unless you sail much further from shore than most would expect with your boat.

Also depends on the water temps - if the water is in the hypothermia zone you don’t really want to spend much time in it.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by TeddyDiver

Depends what kind of dinghy we are talking about. The dilemma in this discussion lies in the fact that nobody knows what kind of dinghy the other participants actually mean.
I dare to say that no liferaft is par with a full blooded lifeboat. The question is what kind of "life dinghy" is adaquate compared to a liferaft.

Teddy

Good point, seriously. And I'm sure you know about all the lives that have been lost testing and maintaining life boats. Since life boats are used on commercial vessels, there are stats on the injuries and deaths from life boat accidents. It may actually surprise some here.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by StuM

Why bother, you can probably just swim ashore from anywhere in your extensive "cruising grounds".

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Teddy, I believe he has a 22footer. Nothing wrong with that, just doesn't seem to click with life raft vs. dinghy conversation as if you have the option?

I have a home made 15' that I do most of my voyaging in. The 22' is for use with my wife. I carry a two man Sevylor paddled by hand as dinghy and life raft. Boat has never seen an EPIRB.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Dinghy and life raft are two entirely different animals.

Life raft and life boat are two entirely different animals. I guess part of the issue is how much do you want to compromise.

[JPA Cate]

If one had to use one's dinghy for a life boat (and I do not think it would be a good one, due to the lack of protection from the elements, lack of containment of the people, and lack of stability), but if one did decide to abandon into it, having a drogue MIGHT keep it stern to the waves.

Our RIB has an aluminum transom, and we have affixed two cleats to it, for a drogue (which we sometimes use, if towing it downwind in a blow). Said drogue is a series drogue, miniature, and has 3 pvc cloth cones, is about 15 ft long, and uses old chain for the weight to keep it in the water. I do not know at all whether it would work in really bad weather, but if the big boat was just about to go under, I would probably want to give it a try.

All creatures seem to try to keep on living as long as they can.

Ann

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Teddy, I believe he has a 22footer. Nothing wrong with that, just doesn't seem to click with life raft vs. dinghy conversation as if you have the option?

I don't know what upgrades it has and how seaworthy it is but 22' has nothing to do with anything as some sail oceans with 15 footers. True, not the same thing but there's a lot of possibilities in between.

Teddy

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I was thinking of you two recently related to this thread. It struck me that the 'pre-gps' cruisers (those of us who learned and made ocean passages before gps and epirbs) had a quite different culture and commitment to seamanship and self-reliance than the current generation. This was by necessity. If you choose to cross oceans back then, there was no assumption of 4 hour average rescue times because #1 it might be difficult to even get a long-range may day off (Flares were an actual thing back then), #2 you might not know your position very accurately (if having been in bad weather for a while) and #3 no-one knew which or where the ship nearest you was. So, basically, back then, you had to assume you were going to save yourself and would only be really lucky if someone came by to rescue you. The Smeetons were the poster child's (and my mentors) of that culture - it was amazing the self-rescues they accomplished, which few today would even imagine possible much less try to pull off.

The change to a more 911 (call for help) offshore culture has been (in large part) driven by the development of sat systems, which really make it all possible. In my various discussions on this topic, I never mean ay criticism of that technology or its possible positive uses, HOWEVER, I do think there is much merit and much to be learned from the culture (I describe just above) that existed before - in terms of self-reliance, commitment to seamanship, and what is actually possible to accomplish.

I wonder if you two, as another pair of dinosaurs, agree?

As the sat technology evolved/developed, Beth and I transitioned to a second niche of offshore cruising (high latitude) with its own particular seamanship/self-reliance requirements and culture. It is also an environment where self-reliance much more essential, quick rescue is less of an option, and ice in the water make the raft (and survival suits) rather less attractive, and the storms violent enough that 'junk on deck' (like an inflated dinghy) was really not a prudent seamanship option.

So, Beth & I spent much of our cruising time in environments which were distinctive in their demands - which probably colors our philosophy. DH said above he did not know anyone else with my focus on seamanship and safety who also made the self-reliant decisions we made . . . . but I am guessing he in fact simply does not know all that many Dinosaurs or folks from the horn/south Georgia/Peninsula triangle . . . because I don't think we (and our thinking) was all that distinctive among those two group cultures.

All creatures seem to try to keep on living as long as they can.

Yes, they certainly do; but as Ken suggested early in the thread - the question at hand is whether they 'fight, flight or freeze' in an emergency. I have known people in emergencies in all three camps.
And many of them were surprised (and some disappointed) in which one they fell into. It is hard to know until you actually face it (and probably differs by the situation and its build up and your teammates around you.

if towing it downwind in a blow

lol, really?

............