Life Raft Discussion.... Yes or No?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Davidla

As someone who has to search for vessels in distress (by air). I would much rather search for a brilliant Orange liferaft than an ocean coloured inflatable. And please make sure you carry a heliograph and know how to use it. Far and away the most visible safety gear when we are searching for you.
And make sure your EPIRB is secured to something or some one. I hate searching for an Epirb that's floated away from its owner. Very hard to spot and often the owner has long left the scene.

Thanks for this post, Davidla.

The ocean coloured dinghy -- pouf!-- invisible! Superb advice about the EPIRB.

Ann

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Surely Kenomac you have heard of the Oyster 825 that lost its keel and sank? It that situation I think a life raft with a Hydrostatic release would be way safer than a RIB lashed to the deck?
Experts examine Oyster Yacht that sank
I have just purchased a four man liferaft for coastal cruising here in Queensland. I will never leave sight of land but I have two young children and want to make sure I have all bases covered if a disaster happens.
Our dinghy is a good option for sure, but if I drowned any of my family for the sake of not spending $3000 I am not sure I could live with myself.
Better safe than sorry.
Cheers

The heavily modified and stretched Oyster 825 wasn’t a Matthew’s built Oyster. I happen to believe drysuits are essential safety gear, does everyone on your boat have a drysuit?

[TJ D]

Hey Ken, I'm a little late to this, and I haven't read it all. You may have made up your mind already.


I'm very much in favor of carrying a raft. A proper dual tube, inflatable floored offshore raft is simply a much better survival platform than a dinghy.



As you know, I spend a ton of time at sea professionally, and we're on boats that are heavily manned, inspected, and seriously seaworthy. Still, abandoning ship is a thing that does happen from time to time.



I don't really buy into the notion that having a raft on board will make you somehow more likely to abandon ship prematurely. You seem like a guy who has it together pretty well, and I think that your approach would preclude taking this kind of a silly action.



A good raft and your drysuits? Your survivability will be a lot better than sitting in a dinghy.



I know your boat's awesome and all that, but things do still happen, you know?

[Beco]

Having spent a night in a life raft in the middle of the English Channel / La Manche with my family after my cat sank, I would recommend that you keep the life raft an hope that you never need it.
If you are ever in that position, don't waste your flares on passing tankers. The just have radar collision watch and do not keep a lookout.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Beco

Having spent a night in a life raft in the middle of the English Channel / La Manche with my family after my cat sank, I would recommend that you keep the life raft an hope that you never need it.
If you are ever in that position, don't waste your flares on passing tankers. The just have radar collision watch and do not keep a lookout.

I'm sure we would all very much like to hear the story behind this.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm sure we would all very much like to hear the story behind this.

Yes, definitely.

[estarzinger]

Originally Posted by TJ D

You seem like a guy who has it together pretty well,

agree with that.

Nursing (and emt and related fields) have stood out as excellent proving grounds for cruisers - giving you experience with stress and emergencies and fateigue and listening; while still keeping you humble (the spec ops military cruisers I have met have been pretty consistent 'not humble' and not taking offshore seriously enough).

As an aside, per my activities recently, it is astonishing the different risk acceptance and profile between serious sailing/cruising and serious/avid bicycling. Avid* bicyclists accept far far more risk without a second thought or endless anguish/debate. It is an interesting study in differing group psychology.

[hpeer]

Bicycles on an urban road scare the crap outta me. I had one run a red light and impale himself into my station wagon. He was a avid biker, triathlete, stayed in shape riding back and forth to work, hard. He survived but was badly hurt.

Some years ago there was an elderly but active sailor near Halifax. Killed riding his bike near home.

And on and on.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

. . . As an aside, per my activities recently, it is astonishing the different risk acceptance and profile between serious sailing/cruising and serious/avid bicycling. Avid* bicyclists accept far far more risk without a second thought or endless anguish/debate. It is an interesting study in differing group psychology.

Maybe I don't qualify as "avid" in your book, but the risks of cycling always bothered me and still do bother me.

I have been doing one or another risky sport my whole life, so I'm not generally risk averse, but the unprotected body on a public road with fast car traffic all around has always seemed borderline unacceptably risky to me. I quit motorcycling some years ago after a couple ofO accidents and narrow escapes from death, and I have friends who have been killed on bicycles (and the son of a friend was very nearly killed on a bicycle just recently).

So I will freely admit that I am not all that comfortable with this level of risk, although I climb and go to remote places and sail in heavy weather and jump with parachutes and do other somewhat risky things. None of those seems to me to be as risky as riding a bicycle on public roads, which I think is the most risky thing I do. So everyone has his own personal risk profile, but I consider it most definitely worthwhile trying to get the level of risk of cruising down well below the level of risk of riding a bike on a public road.

Consider also that we may be cruising for months on end, whereas bike riding is only maybe some hours at a time.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Bicycles on an urban road scare the crap outta me. I had one run a red light and impale himself into my station wagon. He was a avid biker, triathlete, stayed in shape riding back and forth to work, hard. He survived but was badly hurt.

Some years ago there was an elderly but active sailor near Halifax. Killed riding his bike near home.

And on and on.

Ditto.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by estarzinger

agree with that.

Nursing (and emt and related fields) have stood out as excellent proving grounds for cruisers - giving you experience with stress and emergencies and fateigue and listening; while still keeping you humble (the spec ops military cruisers I have met have been pretty consistent 'not humble' and not taking offshore seriously enough).

As an aside, per my activities recently, it is astonishing the different risk acceptance and profile between serious sailing/cruising and serious/avid bicycling. Avid* bicyclists accept far far more risk without a second thought or endless anguish/debate. It is an interesting study in differing group psychology.

Well, this photo of me taken just a couple years ago otta throw a monkey wrench (spanner) into your theory. I raced bicycles for fifteen years then quit to go cruising.

Or maybe it confirms your theory by my reluctance to buy a life raft.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Bicycles on an urban road scare the crap outta me. I had one run a red light and impale himself into my station wagon. He was a avid biker, triathlete, stayed in shape riding back and forth to work, hard. He survived but was badly hurt.

Some years ago there was an elderly but active sailor near Halifax. Killed riding his bike near home.

And on and on.

I was an avid triathlete for years. I now would never road cycle. One mate is a paraplegic another I trained with who is a multi world champion in his age group also got hit from behind and sustained reasonable spinal injuries.

It's very dangerous yet the risk isn't really thought about as your doing it.

We digress.

[Doek]

Liferaft...no way. Mine worked exactly like the one in Les Strouds video (link here (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfNYQ97c7Lk

)
I stuck my knife through it repeatedly and threw it away.

I own a Portland Pudgy now. Never looked back. Something I can trust, use every day, has good real life gear aboard always, will not sink, will not leak or deflate, I can use the canopy any time it's raining, has no yearly fee to repack [it pays for itself within 5-6 years], initial cost is the same as a decent dinghy and a life raft, I can wear harness and hook into strong points in severe weather, and I can actually sail it with a sailing kit permanently aboard at 4-5 knots to shipping lanes or nearest Island after event. I don't just bob around waiting to die. I am a sailor after all.

Life Rafts are dangerous and stupid, giving a false feeling safety and have killed many people (Fastnet). I would never allow one aboard my boat. Waste of space, money, and time. And they smell bad.
Second choice is any dinghy.

[Kenomac]

I’d continue to race competitively if there were more hours in the day, but right now most of my time is consumed by boat stuff. Velodrome racing is quite the rush, very addictive.

I always pretended I was invisible on the road, never had an issue with cars even riding 20,000 km per year. You just need to be aware you’ll always lose a confruntation with a car, then ride appropriately.

[dnickj]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Good idea! But I’ve found prices much cheaper in the UK along with free shipping, so if I purchase one, it’ll be from the UK. A very nice four person raft can be had for around $1000-$1200 USD. Money isn’t so much the issue of this discussion, as much as the actual need when I have what I feel is a much better product available and already inflated.

Hoping to stir the discussion around this point. My RIB dinghy is built rugged enough to withstand speeds in excess of 20mph with the associated forces applied by a 15hp motor. Whereas.... the life raft just hopefully sits there after it.... hopefully self-inflates. Fingers crossed.

The RIB might be great at 20 knots
But if it turned over you would never get it the right way up