Life Raft Discussion.... Yes or No?

[hpeer]

There is now a thread dedicated to this loss. Omega 46, Taiwan, 1980.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-a-203410.html

https://www.maritime-executive.com/f...ran#gs.dTNye6c

[hpeer]

Elsewhere there is a thread looking to ID cat lost in the Southern Hemisphere. It seems they have definitely ID’d the boat as a 50’ cat that hit a whale and capsized. The crew took to a RIB (I think) instead of the raft.

It just seems very odd that a cat would hit a whale and capsize. I don’t get the physics of that.

But it also goes back to assessing your boat and knowing it’s weakness when making these safety decisions.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-202576-2.html

https://www.maritime-executive.com/f...ran#gs.dTNye6c

[Jimmyhenry]

Platino.
20 metre yacht returning from Fiji. Storm conditions. Hydraulic oil spill. One crew member slipped overboard and lost. Lost steering, boat out of control. Gybe.
Main sheet dislocated/broken and block etc wildly swinging. Caught the next crewmember on the head and killed him.
It happens.
Just had friends heading to New Caledonia break the main sheet connection. One crew member hit by the flying block. They returned to NZ to complete repairs.

Putting a life raft in a situation under or near the boom is silly stuff. The boom is commonly a source of danger. More likely than a de-masting.

Pete

[Kenomac]

We intend to store the life raft valise inside the stern locker.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jimmyhenry

Platino.
20 metre yacht returning from Fiji. Storm conditions. Hydraulic oil spill. One crew member slipped overboard and lost. Lost steering, boat out of control. Gybe.
Main sheet dislocated/broken and block etc wildly swinging. Caught the next crewmember on the head and killed him.
It happens.
Just had friends heading to New Caledonia break the main sheet connection. One crew member hit by the flying block. They returned to NZ to complete repairs.

Putting a life raft in a situation under or near the boom is silly stuff. The boom is commonly a source of danger. More likely than a de-masting.

Pete

I was in Whangerai when the Plantino incident occurred.
I guess we'll have to disagree that mounting a raft in front of the dodger is silly. I think mounting vertical on a pushpit is just asking to get it torn off in a breaking seas. Mounting inside lockers can make it impossible for the weakest crew to launch or to retrieve in a fire. No position is perfect.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I was in Whangerai when the Plantino incident occurred.

I guess we'll have to disagree that mounting a raft in front of the dodger is silly. I think mounting vertical on a pushpit is just asking to get it torn off in a breaking seas. Mounting inside lockers can make it impossible for the weakest crew to launch or to retrieve in a fire. No position is perfect.

This, every boat is different and has its own optimum or ‘best of all the options’ for mounting or storing a raft.

Emergency situations add adrenalin to the mix, so a 40kg valise that is difficult to move at the marina becomes a piece of cake to toss with one arm when there’s water around your ankles.

Since loosing our life raft when it’s mounting cage failed during a passage last year (stupid as Outremer-chosen location forward of the main beam adjacent to one of the trampolines) we’re puzzling whether to replace it, and if we do, where to put it. This thread is turning us towards ‘why not?’.

The problem with a multihull is that you have even odds of wanting it when upright as when upside down. But most locations on deck or in the cockpit or a cockpit locker will be a metre or so underwater when upside down. But keeping it in a hull next to an escape hatch for upside down access means it’s a long way away if there’s a fire in the way or that’s the (right way up) submerged hull. Two rafts? That gets silly, but what are the other options?

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by fxykty

This, every boat is different and has its own optimum or ‘best of all the options’ for mounting or storing a raft.

Emergency situations add adrenalin to the mix, so a 40kg valise that is difficult to move at the marina becomes a piece of cake to toss with one arm when there’s water around your ankles.

...

I think you are counting a bit too much on the healthy, young guy who is still immortal. Absolutely fatigued from trying to save the boat for days, on the wrong side of 60, injured, scared and you might not be able to lift that load and get it from a jammed and bouncing around locker.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I think you are counting a bit too much on the healthy, young guy who is still immortal. Absolutely fatigued from trying to save the boat for days, on the wrong side of 60, injured, scared and you might not be able to lift that load and get it from a jammed and bouncing around locker.

I was just being general. We’ve all seen reports of women lifting cars off their kids when no one else is around.

But you’re right, whatever the location, it needs to be accessible for every member of the crew even when no one is feeling their best.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by fxykty

The problem with a multihull is that you have even odds of wanting it when upright as when upside down. But most locations on deck or in the cockpit or a cockpit locker will be a metre or so underwater when upside down. But keeping it in a hull next to an escape hatch for upside down access means it’s a long way away if there’s a fire in the way or that’s the (right way up) submerged hull. Two rafts? That gets silly, but what are the other options?

I like the FP Belize solution. Equally accessible either way up.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I think you are counting a bit too much on the healthy, young guy who is still immortal. Absolutely fatigued from trying to save the boat for days, on the wrong side of 60, injured, scared and you might not be able to lift that load and get it from a jammed and bouncing around locker.

Adrenaline changes everything. I once had a 700 pound grand piano fall on me and pin me to the ground. I pushed it up and off my chect alone in order to breathe when my friend just stood there assuming I was dead. One gets super human strength via adrenaline.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by StuM

I like the FP Belize solution. Equally accessible either way up.

Well, I’ve thought about that location but on our boat that will be about 1 m below the upside down waterline and I expect similar with the Belize. I haven’t seen many photos of capsized multis where you can see much of the bridgedeck.

When right side up, say a fire, how do you reach and release the raft canister?

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Pure BS. Offshore life rafts provide protection and have days worth of fresh water and nourishment.

If you never sail out of sight of land, you may be right.

We have a Switlik OPR that has an optional inflatable floor that insulates against the cold sea water. It also drains water off the top layer so you can remain dryer. They do not do a very good job of explaining all available options on their web site. I found the options after I emailed the company for manuals and brochures.

Their newer offerings move some of the items requiring semi-annual inspections to a ditch bag they provide. They can go 5 years per inspection.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by Flightpaul

Hi Guys,
I worked for a Liferaft Hire company in the past in the UK.
The first thing is stay with the boat as long as it is floating... assuming you have no inflatable dinghy... when your self sinking boat is getting bad, release the liferaft, as this will float at sea level and not at ground level like your boat! An Offshore riferaft will have flares onboard and some water provisions and basic first aid pack. Better still is to take your epirb in a grab bag with you also in this emergancy. Basically, if the boat is sinking grab everything you can, mobile phones food lala.

If you boat is floating.... DON'T leave it. Its a bigger object to see from air or water.
Please note; A 4 person Liferaft is for 4 people, don't think an 8 man is better. They are designed for stability. 4 people in an 8 man raft will not be as stable as a 4 man with 4 people raft.
I dont post here much, but hope that was helpfull.

Other people have said that a 6 person raft was unstable with just 2 people. I asked the VP of Switlik that same question, one of the tests they do is with an empty 6 person raft in the open ocean. With their stabilizing system they do not become unstable without a full load. By your reasoning even two people in a 4 person raft would not be safe. I do not know of any 2 person offshore rafts.

[kmacdonald]

I guess it's best to ignore the failure rate of life rafts and the improper use of them not to mention the inability of crews to inflate and board them in bad conditions. It might keep a lot of people at the dock. We all have different risk tolerance and everyone must chose for themselves. Part of that assessment should include a REALISTIC evaluation of the effectiveness of the safety equipment in question.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I guess it's best to ignore the failure rate of life rafts and the improper use of them not to mention the inability of crews to inflate and board them in bad conditions. It might keep a lot of people at the dock. We all have different risk tolerance and everyone must chose for themselves. Part of that assessment should include a REALISTIC evaluation of the effectiveness of the safety equipment in question.

Do you have some data ,some numbers regarding failure rates? What percentage are we talking about? Where does this number come from?