Life Raft Discussion.... Yes or No?

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Do you have some data ,some numbers regarding failure rates? What percentage are we talking about? Where does this number come from?

GOOGLE it. While you're at it, GOOGLE life boat failures also. There are better stats for that since data is kept on fatalities for commercial vessels. Life raft failures are often the last event in a series of events that lead to a disaster.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

GOOGLE it. While you're at it, GOOGLE life boat failures also. There are better stats for that since data is kept on fatalities for commercial vessels. Life raft failures are often the last event in a series of events that lead to a disaster.

In other words, you don't have any actual information, and haven't even googled it yourself, is that correct? And so you're basing your opinion on -- what exactly? If you didn't just pull it out of thin air, maybe you can share the basis of it? That is what Dale was getting at, and it's a fair question.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

GOOGLE it. While you're at it, GOOGLE life boat failures also. There are better stats for that since data is kept on fatalities for commercial vessels. Life raft failures are often the last event in a series of events that lead to a disaster.

You were the one who brought up failure rates. The burden for providing those rates is on you.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In other words, you don't have any actual information, and haven't even googled it yourself, is that correct? And so you're basing your opinion on -- what exactly? If you didn't just pull it out of thin air, maybe you can share the basis of it? That is what Dale was getting at, and it's a fair question.

No, that's not correct. There were 545000 google hits on life boat failures and a cursory look included 32 training and maintenance fatalities. There is no "burden of proof" on any ones part here. Research it until you are comfortable with your own decision but please don't stick your head in the sand and ignore evidence that doesn't support your fantasies. It's called an "open minded approach" with "fact finding before judgement". It works well for me.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

No, that's not correct. There were 545000 google hits on life boat failures and a cursory look included 32 training and maintenance fatalities. There is no "burden of proof" on any ones part here. Research it until you are comfortable with your own decision but please don't stick your head in the sand and ignore evidence that doesn't support your fantasies. It's called an "open minded approach" with "fact finding before judgement". It works well for me.

I got 58+M hits when I google "Internet Troll", in fact.......never mind!

[Eder]

I don't think anything should be attached to the transom that I wasn't willing to lose in a blow.



A life raft like every thing else on a boat is a compromise. Many that I crossed with didn't carry one...I carried a 6 man satchel in a lazarette....many had a hard case under their boom.


Better to use a well maintained boat and keep a reasonable watch so the raft needs never to be deployed...I doubt in most emergencies most people would make it into the raft anyways.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

No, that's not correct. There were 545000 google hits on life boat failures and a cursory look included 32 training and maintenance fatalities. There is no "burden of proof" on any ones part here. Research it until you are comfortable with your own decision but please don't stick your head in the sand and ignore evidence that doesn't support your fantasies. It's called an "open minded approach" with "fact finding before judgement". It works well for me.

OK, great. Now we're getting somewhere. So on the basis of the number of hits on "life boat failures", and "32 training and maintenance fatalities", we come to the conclusion that life boats (and rafts? not clear) are a waste of time.

OK, that's fine. 365 people in the UK were killed in motorcycle accidents in the UK in 2015 (a lot more than we know about life raft failure deaths). Interestingly, more than 99% of the victims were wearing helmets at the time. Really makes you think, doesn't it . . .

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

OK, great. Now we're getting somewhere. So on the basis of the number of hits on "life boat failures", and "32 training and maintenance fatalities", we come to the conclusion that life boats (and rafts? not clear) are a waste of time.

OK, that's fine. 365 people in the UK were killed in motorcycle accidents in the UK in 2015 (a lot more than we know about life raft failure deaths). Interestingly, more than 99% of the victims were wearing helmets at the time. Really makes you think, doesn't it . . .

Speak for yourself. I don't come to that conclusion at all. I conclude that they are not a 100% effective safety net and prevention is key. I do understand that others may draw different conclusions based on their own circumstances but it is important to consider all variables.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Speak for yourself. I don't come to that conclusion at all. I conclude that they are not a 100% effective safety net and prevention is key. I do understand that others may draw different conclusions based on their own circumstances but it is important to consider all variables.

No, actually, I think 100% of people here would agree with you that "prevention is key," and I don't think any single person suggested that life rafts (like motorcycle helmets) are a 100% effective safety net, which would be obviously silly.

No one putting on a motorcycle helmet thinks -- "I've got a helmet on, therefore I don't care about getting into an accident." Just like no one, and I mean not one single person, thinks "I don't care if we sink, because I've got a life raft."

Have you ever been in a life raft? I have. It's not a place you would ever voluntarily go without dire necessity. A raft does not guaranty that you will be saved. A raft is a last ditch chance at survival, when everything else has gone breasts-up, but just might be the sweetest thing you ever saw, when otherwise facing a chilly death in icy water, 1000 miles from shore.

Written from less than 5 degrees below the Arctic Circle.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

GOOGLE it. While you're at it, GOOGLE life boat failures also. There are better stats for that since data is kept on fatalities for commercial vessels. Life raft failures are often the last event in a series of events that lead to a disaster.

I did a quick Google search prior to asking the question and I found nothing substantial, no real statistics of any kind regarding life rafts. Yes there was a couple of discussions of life rafts not opening but nothing that would suggest they are any where near as unreliable as you are telling them us.

It was a quick search, I'm happy for someone to point out some real data.

When getting my life raft serviced last time I asked the guy doing the service about how many he come across that failed, he said very very few. This is obviously non conclusive but I see no reason why he would lie, it's not his business and he services all brands.

[Beco]

Having spent a night in a "dinosaur" I think that I'd prefer that to an open dinghy shipping water.

Some bits of advice to those who do have one.

Be there when it is serviced.
The painter cutting knife was missing (fortunately my daughter had hers which saved us a dunking)
The first aid kit was in a water-logged "sealed" bag
The painter was attached to the wrong side which meant that we had to clamber over the inflated canopy.

Get training
If you do end up in the water, it's good to have experienced getting in

Get one with a double bottom - mine was single and hypothermia was setting in by the time we were rescued

Have a grab bag with passports, money and cards in - mine all went down with the boat

[Paul L]

To add to the mounting liferaft question, on Kalaerin the raft was swept away when they were knocked down. It was mounted on the coach roof in a metal base. The base had 4 poles each with 3 bolts. They all got sheared off. The painter was attached to the mount so it did not inflate when it was knocked off.

[Jimmyhenry]

Excellent point made by Paul L about the attachment for the painter. I will now tie our liferaft painter to a deck cleat.
Amazing force to shear three bolt. Was there any question of corrosion involved ?

[hpeer]

It would be nice to know the condition of the coach roof. Perhaps the bolts did not shear but were ripped out.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hpeer

It would be nice to know the condition of the coach roof. Perhaps the bolts did not shear but were ripped out.

Undoubtedly true, but what difference does it make? The point is that a place vulnerable to green water might not be the best place for the life raft.

Mine is in a special shallow locker on the after deck where it can't be hit by green water, but I have long been not pleased with how well it is held down. I am in the process of doing something about that.