Life Raft for Coastal...Yes or No?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I agree. Life raft definitely no good for this case. I already wrote that in one of my previous posts above.





Who's adamant? I think I specifically wrote:


"I'm not telling you whether you need a raft or not -- only you can decide that."


and:



"A sober analysis of the risks, and cost-benefit, is what is needed, and not blind emotion. And only you can make this decision."


And who's hypocritical? I keep my dinghy deflated and covered on deck on passage, but near rocky coasts, I inflate it, rig the motor, and put it in the davits. I've said all along that a life raft is not a solution to every emergency, and there are a number of situations where having ready use of the dinghy could save your life. At the same time, it's not an either/or situation -- having the dinghy ready doesn't exclude also having a raft.







There have been many intelligent, well-considered, and non-adamant responses in this thread.


Here is another really good one:








Words to live by!!




This excellent, intelligent, and non-adamant post by JLS095 actually brings to mind the decision-making process which went on between Harland & Wolff and the White Star Line when the RMS Titanic was being designed. They did a similar cost-benefit analysis about life boats, and they came up with the decision that the Titanic was so well designed, so well provided with different safety equipment, and just so generally awesome that they didn't shrink from calling her "unsinkable", that they decided that the Titanic didn't really need life boats the way ordinary, more mortal ships did, and that a full contingent of life boats would be a waste of money, so they provided the vessel with boats adequate for less than half of the persons they expected to have on board.



Well, we know how that turned out -- in the event, the general awesomeness of the Titanic did not withstand the "cascade of bad events" in ways neither the designers of the ship, nor the owners, would have ever thought possible, with disastrous results.


So what I am saying is -- it's definitely right to do this analysis, and it is definitely right to question just blindly doing what other people do. You cannot eliminate every risk and it is useless to try. But in doing this analysis, be sure and pay due recognition to the kinds of things which happen to other boats, and which MIGHT happen to you. The phrase "it can't happen to me" should not exist in any sailor's vocabulary. Rather, "there but for the grace of God go I".

I thought you got rid of your davits two years ago when you downsized your dinghy and outboard?

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by jls095

The longer this thread and the other go on, the more it seems like nothing anyone says will help you decide. Either that or it reads like you're looking for affirmation of not taking a raft. Ultimately that decision is yours and you will make it based on your own circumstances and risk values (neither of which us internet folk are privy to).

I'm located in Boston and have cruised downeast Maine, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, and Labrador. I do not have davits, the dinghy is on the deck for overnighters. I chose to take a raft because it gives me another option if something catastrophic happens. I'm willing to pay a little (relatively speaking in boat terms) for having that option available. I'm a risk adverse person, so that's how my decision was made. Plus, the water is damn cold.

In all likelihood having the dinghy is fine for coastal, but in my own experience, and from reading about others, bad events tend to cascade in ways we would have never thought possible. Options and redundancy are a good thing.

That’s because most of the responses up until yours have been nothing more than emotional jabs and cheap shots .

You win the prize for best contribution o date. Well thought-out, non-emotional and I agree with you 100 percent.

Thanks

Ken

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

That’s because most of the responses up until yours have been nothing more than emotional jabs and cheap shots .

You win the prize for best contribution o date. Well thought-out, non-emotional and I agree with you 100 percent.

Thanks

Ken

So.. by that I take it your going for the dinghy and a liferaft for redundancy.. get a 4 man and store it in the dinghy..

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by boatman61

So.. by that I take it your going for the dinghy and a liferaft for redundancy.. get a 4 man and store it in the dinghy..

Ran it by our friends who will be crew, they didn't care one way or the other & thought we'd be safe with just the dinghy. Since we'll be sailing across the Atlantic in either 2019 or 2020 depending on how much we like Newfoundland, we'll need it anyway, so.... Why not now? Called the UK company earlier today who will get back to me on Monday on whether or not they can meet our July 18th departure for delivery on the 6 man life raft. If not, it can wait. If they can... we'll place the order.

We'll store the valise type life raft in the stern locker where it can be easily reached. Right near the dinghy on davits.

Coastal choice will definitely be the dinghy, offshore choice will be BOTH. I was surprised by the comments on this tread which were predominantly rude and focused more on our perceived ability to purchase a life raft rather than the need to actually need one given the circumstances. But after all... what else should I expect from the internet?

Many thanks to those who offered up constructive discussion and to you Phil for your constructive comments.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I thought you got rid of your davits two years ago when you downsized your dinghy and outboard?

I did, but I replaced them with smaller manual Simpson ones. I'm delighted I did, too. Haven't had one failure yet, so different from those damned electric Cooneys.

[buzzstar]

As with many, perhaps most, or even nearly all things related to cruising, it depends on your personal preferences/comfort and budget. The need to use one is infrequent or rare, but if it makes you and yours feel better, go for it. If you don't, fell the need, act accordingly. With 62' of boat, why not have a really good one if you can? I was less inclined to do so when I had roughly half the length and was almost always solo.

[Chas.7]

Hello,
I know of a 46 year old man. He was in excellent shape. He fell into 46 degree water less than a half a mile from shore without a PFD. In 15 minutes he could not hold on to a paddle. He died.
Take a STCW course. It will give you a good idea of what it takes when things go bad, I would have the finest survival suit on the market.
I wish you all the best,
Good luck

[kmacdonald]

I'm happy with a dinghy and EPIRB even for offshore passages. I'm not accident prone though.

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Chas.7

Hello,
I know of a 46 year old man. He was in excellent shape. He fell into 46 degree water less than a half a mile from shore without a PFD. In 15 minutes he could not hold on to a paddle. He died.
Take a STCW course. It will give you a good idea of what it takes when things go bad, I would have the finest survival suit on the market.
I wish you all the best,
Good luck

If someone knows he could not hold up a paddle, why was he not rescued? While a survival suit could have helped if h'd been wearing it (a key point since I believe most are not put on except in conditions where there is a planned or highly probable situation warranting it, not just falling overboard. The absence of a PFD is the most profound, and perhaps fatal error. Why did he have a paddle?

[Chas.7]

Hello,
He couldn’t hold on to the paddle because the blood leaves your arms and legs to protect your core. In minutes you can’t use your fingers. When I was working I would check the chart of life expectancies depending on the water temperature. Any water under 70 degrees and you are in danger.
Good luck

[kmacdonald]

Sure, he might have lived a little longer with a life jacket but he would have frozen anyway.

[Chas.7]

Buzzstar,
He was a kayaker. Another kayaker trying to save him, but he could not hold on to the another kayaker’s paddle. If he had a PFD he may of lived up to an hour.
Most people do not consider the real danger.
Good luck

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by Chas.7

Hello,
He couldn’t hold on to the paddle because the blood leaves your arms and legs to protect your core. In minutes you can’t use your fingers. When I was working I would check the chart of life expectancies depending on the water temperature. Any water under 70 degrees and you are in danger.
Good luck

Even 70 water is cold.

[Chas.7]

Yes,you are absolutely right.
Good luck

[buzzstar]

Originally Posted by Chas.7

Buzzstar,
He was a kayaker. Another kayaker trying to save him, but he could not hold on to the another kayaker’s paddle. If he had a PFD he may of lived up to an hour.
Most people do not consider the real danger.
Good luck

I'll buy that, but initially you had omitted the vital information, "kayak." I admit I still do not know how one can fall from a kayak, at least while in any ocean water that allowed a rescue attempt. Or is there more that I am missing? With a PDF there a decent chance that he would have been able to swim the half mile to shore since the exercise would produce some level of heat.