Live aboard Snowbirds - Toronto to Florida yearly migration. Is anyone doing this?

[Larry Florida]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I ask because I know of the perfect boat for that, and no it's not mine

Might be interested. Any details?

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Captain Denis

I assume like most who answered your query that you will be living permanently on your boat. So, why going back all the way to Toronto? Just go north for the hurricane season maybe around the Chesapeake Bay. I was a snowbird for 16 years but I had a house to Canada that I could got to and get back to making some $. I always left my boat in dry dock if I had to leave her for more than a month. I was in Marina Hemingway for many years refitting my boat. I also heard that the docking fees have gone up substantially. Cuban Coast Guard will not allow you to live at anchor. Happy retirement,

Let me see, cooler temps, clean water, fresh water, fewer T storms, OHIP (free provincial health insurance), CPP (Canada Pension Plan) OAS (old age security), maple syrup. ;-). (PS, I had me at freshwater.) ;-)

[Tracker99x]

This is my first time posting on here. We are planning to do the very same in 2019, except for our first trip, we are considering staying south during hurricane season(Grenada, T&T, ABC, Panama) and working our way back up before the start of the next hurricane season. Essentially sailing for 1 1/2 to 2 years and then staying in Canada (Toronto or Hamilton) for 1 year. This will give us the experience up and down the ICW to help us plan our trips from that point on.

We are in the market for a boat now. considering a C&C 40, CS 36 traditional or Merlin or similar. 36-40ft, 5ft draft, sloop rigged. We are new to sailing, but have been boating for a long time( Carver cruiser), so we want to keep it as simple as possible. Maybe I should be making a new thread about boat recommendations?

Anyhow, ToddMurray we would like to continue to hear about your plans. Good Luck!

[toddmurray]

Thanks once again for all your feedback.
I should have clarified I'm selling my home in Ontario, which is why we are going to move aboard full time. Two boats are not in our budget, so we need to do the migration yearly. We would be going back to Ontario for 5 months a year to maintain our Ontario Health Insurance coverage. For those who don't know, our taxes pay for health care in Canada, but you need to be in the province 5 months a year.


I suspect I would try to go outside of ICW as much as possible to keep the amount of motoring to a minimum. I've read somewhere a diesel engine may need to be rebuilt around 10,000 hours.


I just did some calculation in the Navionics Webapp for a rough estimate. Oswego to Fort Lauderdale via the ICW is about 1785 miles. At 50 miles a day, that about 35 days of motoring. Nope. Not doing that. We will be sailing offshore when weather permits.

[Southern Star]

Todd, it sounds like you don't need advice about the trek down and the amount of motoring that may be involved. Just keep in mind that that your daily estimates of distance travelled fail to take into account:

1.The entire NY State canal system will be motoring as you will need your mast down until Catskill Creek; most days you will be unable to do that many miles due to the number of locks and the delays inherent in the same.

2. You will no doubt sail offshore from NYC through to Delaware Bay, but bear in mind again you will get some contrary winds and may end up doing some motorsailing.

3. You will, I assume, pay some attention to weather patterns, especially during hurricane season. We motorsailed/motored from Atlantic City through Delaware Bay at night to the C&D canal (anchored at Delaware City at about midnight) in order to avoid a bad weather front and the approaching hurricane Mathew. Not in our plans, but we would rather motor and be safe from a hurricane. You may differ.

4. We took offshore passages when weather permitted, but also found that you can sail/motorsail in many areas of the ICW. Its not all motoring. When the weather was snotty/winds contrary offshore, we preferred to make progress south even if it meant motoring in the ICW. You may not care about beating the onset of cold weather.

The point is, you have no idea how much you will need to motor until you are enroute. Weather is the key to any passage and it will vary from month to month, year to year. Heck, even our gulfstream crossing involved a day of motorsailing. We waited 10 days in Lake Worh for a good weather window and when it arrived, the winds were largely light and variable. The next front arrived in 3 days so we went for it. You may prefer to keep waiting for a window with good sailing conditions.....

Brad

PS You can, of course, sail offshore directly fro NYC to the Bahamas if you choose. We are not paranoid about offhsore sailing and, while we have not crossed oceans, did sail from NYC to Bermuda two years ago. On this trip, we wanted to visit anumber of cities/anchorages that we have not spent
time at on the way down. We did not regret it.

[Cheechako]

I will say though, you are going to be spending a lot of time getting back and forth. At least a month each way but likely more...?

[toddmurray]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

Todd, it sounds like you don't need advice about the trek down and the amount of motoring that may be involved. Just keep in mind that that your daily estimates of distance travelled fail to take into account:

1.The entire NY State canal system will be motoring as you will need your mast down until Catskill Creek; most days you will be unable to do that many miles due to the number of locks and the delays inherent in the same.

2. You will no doubt sail offshore from NYC through to Delaware Bay, but bear in mind again you will get some contrary winds and may end up doing some motorsailing.

3. You will, I assume, pay some attention to weather patterns, especially during hurricane season. We motorsailed/motored from Atlantic City through Delaware Bay at night to the C&D canal (anchored at Delaware City at about midnight) in order to avoid a bad weather front and the approaching hurricane Mathew. Not in our plans, but we would rather motor and be safe from a hurricane. You may differ.

4. We took offshore passages when weather permitted, but also found that you can sail/motorsail in many areas of the ICW. Its not all motoring. When the weather was snotty/winds contrary offshore, we preferred to make progress south even if it meant motoring in the ICW. You may not care about beating the onset of cold weather.

The point is, you have no idea how much you will need to motor until you are enroute. Weather is the key to any passage and it will vary from month to month, year to year. Heck, even our gulfstream crossing involved a day of motorsailing. We waited 10 days in Lake Worh for a good weather window and when it arrived, the winds were largely light and variable. The next front arrived in 3 days so we went for it. You may prefer to keep waiting for a window with good sailing conditions.....

Brad

PS You can, of course, sail offshore directly fro NYC to the Bahamas if you choose. We are not paranoid about offhsore sailing and, while we have not crossed oceans, did sail from NYC to Bermuda two years ago. On this trip, we wanted to visit anumber of cities/anchorages that we have not spent
time at on the way down. We did not regret it.

Thanks Brad. Excellent info. The variables are vast and options are many.

[toddmurray]

Originally Posted by naitaka322

Todd
there is many members in the WYC who have done this trip. You may want to look them up
Jim:

Hi Jim.
Yes, I will do that for sure.
See you on dock 6 this spring.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by toddmurray

Thanks once again for all your feedback.
I should have clarified I'm selling my home in Ontario, which is why we are going to move aboard full time. Two boats are not in our budget, so we need to do the migration yearly. We would be going back to Ontario for 5 months a year to maintain our Ontario Health Insurance coverage. For those who don't know, our taxes pay for health care in Canada, but you need to be in the province 5 months a year.


I suspect I would try to go outside of ICW as much as possible to keep the amount of motoring to a minimum. I've read somewhere a diesel engine may need to be rebuilt around 10,000 hours.


I just did some calculation in the Navionics Webapp for a rough estimate. Oswego to Fort Lauderdale via the ICW is about 1785 miles. At 50 miles a day, that about 35 days of motoring. Nope. Not doing that. We will be sailing offshore when weather permits.

Hi Todd,

You may want to take in my "Outfitting For Cruising" presentation at the WYC winter sail seminar series (Feb. 22).

In my opinion, those who beat it down and back, may miss too much (people, places, history, culture, and leisure relaxation) along the way.

Besides, if ya wanna get there fast, yer in the wrong boat! ;-)

But an annual trek? Some do it, but it will surely take it's toll on the boat, your pocket book, and your patience.

It may be cheaper and more productive to buy health insurance if that is the only reason for returning to Ontario annually.

(Note that you can apply for a one time 2 year sabbatical and retain your OHIP coverage.)

[GordMay]

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Tracker.

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Perhaps, to maintain Canadian Healthcare coverage (OHIP)?

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Nickodemus.

Nah, They don't check.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by undercutter

Nah, They don't check.

Not yet … but it’s certainly possible to have customs data shared with provincial health authorities. Unless it is specifically disallowed in legislation, I bet it will start to happen, probably sooner than we like, especially for our most important border crossing: the USA.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

Might be interested. Any details?

While I have not seen it, gut feeling is its a very well kept boat with a much better than average engine and generator, large enough to be very comfortable and with a 4'3" draft, very ICW friendly

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...le-178784.html

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Not yet … but it’s certainly possible to have customs data shared with provincial health authorities. Unless it is specifically disallowed in legislation, I bet it will start to happen, probably sooner than we like, especially for our most important border crossing: the USA.

Maybe, but the issue for the Province is that if they deny us health care over residency then they would not be entitled to our taxes. Kind of like they can't have it both ways. Good for the Feds though as they would then get it all. Can't see the Provincial Gov't giving up the taxes that I pay every year. Certainly amounts to a lot more than they pay for my health care. LOL

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by undercutter

Maybe, but the issue for the Province is that if they deny us health care over residency then they would not be entitled to our taxes. Kind of like they can't have it both ways. Good for the Feds though as they would then get it all. Can't see the Provincial Gov't giving up the taxes that I pay every year. Certainly amounts to a lot more than they pay for my health care. LOL

Your eligibility for OHIP is not directly tied to taxation. I think you can remain a resident for tax purposes, but still fail to meet the requirements for provincial health coverage. Rev Canada’s rules for residency are broader and cover many more factors. OHIP only cares if you have been in the province* for "for at least 153 days in any 12-month period.”

As soon as we hit the USA border our passports are scanned and a digital record of our departure is recorded. When we come back the same happens. It is technically possible to compare these two records. I predict this will start to happen soon if legislation doesn’t block it.

*Travel within Canada, but outside your home province, counts towards your 212 day max. each year. But here there is no easy way for “da man” to track us.