Logbooks

[sanibel sailor]

I know it is a good idea with some benefits.

However, are there any US legal requirements for a vessel to have a logbook? There are obviously a million runabouts without them. I have not kept one when daysailing or doing day races, and I doubt most sailors do in this circumstances. It makes a lot of sense when doing passages. How about in-between situations? In the case of an event, officials might request to review it. Is there a legal obligation to keep one?

[slipaway]

Short answer, for the great majority of recreational boaters there is no legal requirement for a logbook: "46 U.S. Code § 11301.Logbook and entry requirements
(a)Except a vessel on a voyage from a port in the United States to a port in Canada, a vessel of the United States shall have an official logbook if the vessel is—
(1)on a voyage from a port in the United States to a foreign port; or
(2)of at least 100 gross tons as measured under section 14502 of this title, or an alternate tonnage measured under section 14302 of this title as prescribed by the Secretary under section 14104 of this title and is on a voyage between a port of the United States on the Atlantic Ocean and on the Pacific Ocean."

It is interesting to note that even where a logbook may be required, navigation information is not a required entry according to US law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/46/11301

There may be some states (such as NC) which require a record of waste tank pump outs- you could look at that as a legal log requirment.

There are of course many good reasons for different kinds of record keeping but limited legal requirements.

[IslandInfedel]

Noticed this post as I was trying to find a introduction area

This reminds me of my industry
Less is more, unless required by law saying less and documenting less, outside of the few who REALLY know what and why they are documenting, the less documentation in your life the better.

I have seen people present their own security footage as if it would be their salvation, only to be to their legal and financial demise, this is why any lawyer will tell you never to say more to authorities than required, and saying nothing is king.
If you keep the record it could be later called into question, the court, or police, or foreign customs will go over ALL of it, not just the date in question, trying to later augment or destroy it will look even worse.

In conclusion, if you have to ask on the internet, if not required to keep such a record, which you should know if you are required, the simple answer is the bad quickly can outweigh what little good.

[Telesail]

Whether it is a log book or some other means of recording, you are required to note time and your location if you hear a MayDay transmission. This applies in the US and many other jurisdictions. It has proved useful for tracking down where a calling station was located - based on who could and could not hear and where they were in Maine last summer.

As to keeping a log, we do it every hour during the day and every two at night (to the greatest extent possible). It has never caused us a problem and aided us in dealing with authorities on several occasions because they treated it as an authoritative record - as we could show it was routinely kept - by Spanish, Caribbean and US customs etc.

[wingssail]

We keep a detailed log book of our own creation and have since the day we acquired this boat. I've done it for previous boats as well.

No, it is not required. Yes, I suppose it could be used against me in some circumstance, of which I cannot right now imagine. I am not worried abut that, I'm not into hiding or worried about an evil governmental force trying to find evidence in my log. Just not worried about that.

In fact our logs are online and available for anyone's perusal: Log Book Pages. There are 1460 log pages posted, each one documents one trip from port to another. Many are one day in length, some are many days (documenting an ocean crossing, for example).

They include all the details of the trip, dates, persons on board, weather conditions continuously recorded, position, course, speed, sail combinations, engine information of motoring, and any and all breakdowns, repairs, and maintenance. Plus observations of interest. Some of this information is searchable (breakdowns and maintenance, for example, as well as persons on board and locations).

They are up to date as of July 2019, and we will bring it completely up to date this summer.

So, our log bog details the entire history day by day, of this boat and our operation of it.

Call me compulsive/obsessive

Here is an example (too bad the time of day is cut off in the scan):

[MicHughV]

I now have several homemade log books, they are wonderful memories for me....I think of a log book as a journal of the 1,000's of miles I've sailed...whomever was on watch could enter anything in the log, besides all the pertinent data. It makes for wonderful reading.

[a64pilot]

We log when and where we leave and where we are going etc and sea state and a few other items.
But only for remembrance, Sort of like a photo album, thinking one day we may read it and remember back. But for no other reason.
I can’t imagine any use of logging anything hourly. As it is we have gone through a couple of logbooks and are now using a notebook.
But logging hourly reports? What in the world for?
I’ve never logged pump outs. Vero Beach gives you a receipt for the free pump out for some reason.
What would logging Pump outs prove?

[rbk]

On bigger trips we keep a written log more for memories etc. The maintenance log book gets updated when items are replaced/repaired, fuel ups, filter changes etc. Plus I write the date on the filter when changed (or painters tape on the racor 500). I have the old log books from the previous owners and find it invaluable for maintenance. This is also where I calculate fuel burn.

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by wingssail

We keep a detailed log book of our own creation and have since the day we acquired this boat. I've done it for previous boats as well.

No, it is not required. Yes, I suppose it could be used against me in some circumstance, of which I cannot right now imagine. I am not worried abut that, I'm not into hiding or worried about an evil governmental force trying to find evidence in my log. Just not worried about that.

In fact our logs are online and available for anyone's perusal: Log Book Pages. There are 1460 log pages posted, each one documents one trip from port to another. Many are one day in length, some are many days (documenting an ocean crossing, for example).

They include all the details of the trip, dates, persons on board, weather conditions continuously recorded, position, course, speed, sail combinations, engine information of motoring, and any and all breakdowns, repairs, and maintenance. Plus observations of interest. Some of this information is searchable (breakdowns and maintenance, for example, as well as persons on board and locations).

They are up to date as of July 2019, and we will bring it completely up to date this summer.

So, our log bog details the entire history day by day, of this boat and our operation of it.

Call me compulsive/obsessive

Here is an example (too bad the time of day is cut off in the scan):

If I had a penny for every time someone said, I never thought XYZ would have been a problem.

This is far from big bad government, though as time goes on government has been digging deeper, to the point 15 years ago the actions we see now would have been in tin foil hat territory.
I would be remiss to not mention personal records have been ordered to be turned over for everything from slip and falls, divorces, property damage, the list goes on

If you are a romantic and like the idea of sitting at your wood desk with your pen and log, at least ask yourself if this entry is something you would have issue should it be accidentally sent in a notarized letter to both the police and your worst enemy.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by IslandInfedel

...I would be remiss to not mention personal records have been ordered to be turned over for everything from slip and falls, divorces, property damage, the list goes on

If you are a romantic and like the idea of sitting at your wood desk with your pen and log, at least ask yourself if this entry is something you would have issue should it be accidentally sent in a notarized letter to both the police and your worst enemy.

OK IslandInfedel, Here is how I answer you. No one will ever order me to turn over my logs because I ALREADY HAVE. Here they are, (Log Book Pages) all of them, they are yours. Do what you want. I have nothing to hide. I will appear before them Naked. OK?

What furtive things in your past are you fearful of them finding?

I don't do my log out of any romantic notions, it is simply my own record, nothing more, and every entry can be sent to anyone, since they are already available to everyone. Go look. Log Book Pages Do you find anything that threatens me?

Want More? Since 1996, when we departed on our cruise of the world we have written and photographed our life, as a blog: WINGSSAIL - Cruising Log of Wings - Serendipity 43 - Fred Roswold & Judy Jensen. It is all there, and it mirrors the log book pages. So we are revealed. You can read this and see into my heart. See the joys and the heartbreaks (but of those there are few). I don't care, I write it for myself but you can look over my shoulder, and send what you wish to the police, or anybody. They already have it.

Want more? I write on this forum, sometimes indiscreetly. You can read all of my posts. I don't care. Sent it to the cops. They already have it.

One of these days you and I will be dead. Some short time later everyone who knew us will also be dead. Then anything and everything we ever did or said will be forgotten and lost, every mile we ever sailed will be unknown, every race, every tack, every shouted order, every creative idea, will be gone. So what? And I am sure these log books, blogs and CF forum comments will also fade into the digital abyss, lost into the infinity of too much data. As for now, I could care less.

I will keep my log, because I want to. I am not fearful.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

We log when and where we leave and where we are going etc and sea state and a few other items.
But only for remembrance, Sort of like a photo album, thinking one day we may read it and remember back. But for no other reason.
I can’t imagine any use of logging anything hourly. As it is we have gone through a couple of logbooks and are now using a notebook.
But logging hourly reports? What in the world for?
I’ve never logged pump outs. Vero Beach gives you a receipt for the free pump out for some reason.
What would logging Pump outs prove?

I agree there isn't much point in the post GPS era.

Pre GPS, it was a good idea to log one's navigational data at the same time of updating the chart e.g. advancing one's DR, running fix, fix etc as required. Recording heading, STW, log, bearings and so on.

AFAIK, a radio log should contain pertinent radio conversation details if involved in any distress situation.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Wotname

...it was a good idea to log one's navigational data at the same time of updating the chart e.g. advancing one's DR, running fix, fix etc as required. Recording heading, STW, log, bearings and so on...

This is still a good idea for the exact same reason: If our electronics went down we could dead reckon our position by estimated speed and magnetic compass heading and determine a position which can be placed on a chart. I can still do that, and I will long after anyone else even remembers why (but Captain Cook will look knowingly down on me and approve.)

[IslandInfedel]

Originally Posted by wingssail

OK IslandInfedel, Here is how I answer you. No one will ever order me to turn over my logs because I ALREADY HAVE. Here they are, (Log Book Pages) all of them, they are yours. Do what you want. I have nothing to hide. I will appear before them Naked. OK?

What furtive things in your past are you fearful of them finding?

I don't do my log out of any romantic notions, it is simply my own record, nothing more, and every entry can be sent to anyone, since they are already available to everyone. Go look. Log Book Pages Do you find anything that threatens me?

Want More? Since 1996, when we departed on our cruise of the world we have written and photographed our life, as a blog: WINGSSAIL - Cruising Log of Wings - Serendipity 43 - Fred Roswold & Judy Jensen. It is all there, and it mirrors the log book pages. So we are revealed. You can read this and see into my heart. See the joys and the heartbreaks (but of those there are few). I don't care, I write it for myself but you can look over my shoulder, and send what you wish to the police, or anybody. They already have it.

Want more? I write on this forum, sometimes indiscreetly. You can read all of my posts. I don't care. Sent it to the cops. They already have it.

One of these days you and I will be dead. Some short time later everyone who knew us will also be dead. Then anything and everything we ever did or said will be forgotten and lost, every mile we ever sailed will be unknown, every race, every tack, every shouted order, every creative idea, will be gone. So what? And I am sure these log books, blogs and CF forum comments will also fade into the digital abyss, lost into the infinity of too much data. As for now, I could care less.

I will keep my log, because I want to. I am not fearful.

As it is your choice, as it is your risk.

We all take them, eating red meat, having a glass of wine or two then driving back from that dinner engagement, surfing, and yes, also putting much of our lives online or otherwise on record, all risks, all have some type of reward to us on some personal level, it’s all just a balance.

[slug]

Originally Posted by sanibel sailor

I know it is a good idea with some benefits.

However, are there any US legal requirements for a vessel to have a logbook? There are obviously a million runabouts without them. I have not kept one when daysailing or doing day races, and I doubt most sailors do in this circumstances. It makes a lot of sense when doing passages. How about in-between situations? In the case of an event, officials might request to review it. Is there a legal obligation to keep one?

A few years ago I took shelter in Brest , France

While at anchor the French authorities paid a visit
They were sniffing out VAT liability

To do this they examined my logbook and counted every day that the vessel was in the EU

I have also had my logbook examined by Greek authorities on the Turkish frontier


You would be wise to alway keep a logbook

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by wingssail

This is still a good idea for the exact same reason: If our electronics went down we could dead reckon our position by estimated speed and magnetic compass heading and determine a position which can be placed on a chart. I can still do that, and I will long after anyone else even remembers why (but Captain Cook will look knowingly down on me and approve.)

And your fellow navigators.

I'm still bemused by all those sailors who depend on electronics only and don't know how to navigate at all if their electronic charts and GPS go down. My position is ALWAYS keep a hard copy log. (I've always kept the maintenance log separately, though.)

Warmly,
LittleWing77