Market Value vs selling value

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by ozdigennaro

There is only one "value" for a boat: when a seller and a buyer agree on a price, that is the "value" of the boat, for that moment.

All other "values" are estimates or guesses or manipulation. They can be useful, but they determine nothing.
Oz

Nope. Not at all. Did you READ any of the comments by professionals? You can have your own opinion of what "value" means to you, but there are rules, regulations and laws that actually define it.

*********************
As an aside about Surveyors. After hurricane Harvey, we decided we will have our boat surveyed every time it comes out for a bottom job. There were just too few made, and a more current survey would have shaved 6 months off of our repair timeline. The surveyor we use is VERY well known and respected. I wouldn't dream of asking what the price is for his survey. I just happily pay the bill. I hope he doesn't read this, because we are in the middle of a survey, and he's worth every cent.

[Cheechako]

It's very much about availability of the design on the market and how popular that boat is.
-Survey values are always high.
-Sold values by geographic area are more accurate.
-Broker's estimate of value is often 20-40% high from the actual reality. But temper that with the first sentence!

[waterman46]

Originally Posted by maijipo

Thx you. This website named on your report is for professionals only? I am going to look at 3 more boats over the weekend any price reference would help. I am going to see a 1993 C&C 37/40 XL, A Sweden Yacht 40 from 85, and a Sabre 42 from 85.

You wrote that you signed for 100K but you are still looking? If you can back out or renegotiate, I would. That Sabre was last produced in 1984. I'd say 100K, or 90K, is way too high IMHO unless it is really spiffed up. You can get a lot more boat of that age for 100K.

[maijipo]

Originally Posted by waterman46

You wrote that you signed for 100K but you are still looking? If you can back out or renegotiate, I would. That Sabre was last produced in 1984. I'd say 100K, or 90K, is way too high IMHO unless it is really spiffed up. You can get a lot more boats of that age for 100K.

No, the 100K was for the 45 ft Fabola we did the survey and the market value came back at 90K. We may try to negotiate under 90K. We will see after the weekend.

The Sabre 42 is currently listed back at 139K. It seems an incredibly high price for a boat of 1985 even in good condition. The boat has a new cockpit enclosure and good external/interior condition (at least cosmetic). However, I would value more a new standing rigging, sail, etc... I was thinking about a proposal on the 80-85K. The C&C and Sweden 41 are listed at 87K. Seems to me high as well. But I think that prices are just like that. Sellers assume that buyers will put whatever in a boat because they want it. Not my case. Also, with the winter coming, the quick sale of people wanting boats right now is going to go down and negotiation will be easier (I hope). The Sabre 42 is on the market for at least 4 months (after being under contract - that is why we went for the Fabola), the C&C 2 months. Not sure about the Sweden Yachts.

After getting the price of the Fabola down from 150k to 100K, I am confident that the listed prices are just not realistic.

Anyway, I don't feel that I need to stop looking for a new options because I paid 1500 for the survey / haul-out. That is why surveys are for.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by maijipo

The Sabre 42 is on the market for at least 4 months (after being under contract - that is why we went for the Fabola), the C&C 2 months. Not sure about the Sweden Yachts.

After getting the price of the Fabola down from 150k to 100K, I am confident that the listed prices are just not realistic.

Anyway, I don't feel that I need to stop looking for a new options because I paid 1500 for the survey / haul-out. That is why surveys are for.

Only reason a boat in this narket is up for sale for four months or even two months is that it.s grossly overpriced even by todays ridiculous standards.

[MicHughV]

I like to look at engine "hours" and " maintenance" when looking at a boat, this can tell a lot about a boat.
In the same vein I like to take a close look at the engine compartment, which is more often than not, a telling story, about the boat's general condition and upkeep.
Rebuilding or servicing an onboard diesel is a big buck item....not something I want to be saddled with when purchasing a new boat.
I could spend days here relating the bullsh-t stories I've head from boat owners regarding the onboard diesel.
If this area doesn't pass the smell test, I've little interest in looking at anything else.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Only reason a boat in this narket is up for sale for four months or even two months is that it.s grossly overpriced even by todays ridiculous standards.

How much of a time factor is Season and Location in this N. American Market?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

How much of a time factor is Season and Location in this N. American Market?

Over the last 5-10 yrs distance appears to be an increasingly more insignificant factor other than east coast vs. west coast. Boats have become a reasonably portable commodity.

Season can make a slight difference due to negotiations over the cost of winter storage in the east coast northern regions.

Your mileage may vary.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

Over the last 5-10 yrs distance appears to be an increasingly more insignificant factor other than east coast vs. west coast. Boats have become a reasonably portable commodity.

Season can make a slight difference due to negotiations over the cost of winter storage in the east coast northern regions.

Your mileage may vary.

So different from what I am seeing in Asia.

Boats here are more of the cruising variety bought by expat retirees

They are generally suffering from lack of basic parts supply, facilities with knowledgeable maintenance infrastructure

Owners get frustrated and decide to get rid of their boat at all costs, so great deals can be had, but you can also inherit a lot of problems

Other than hubs near Phuket towards Singapore, Owners need to be involved and inventive to maintain their boats well.

You gotta enjoy doing it.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

So different from what I am seeing in Asia.

Boats here are more of the cruising variety bought by expat retirees

They are generally suffering from lack of basic parts supply, facilities with knowledgeable maintenance infrastructure

Owners get frustrated and decide to get rid of their boat at all costs, so great deals can be had, but you can also inherit a lot of problems

Other than hubs near Phuket towards Singapore, Owners need to be involved and inventive to maintain their boats well.

You gotta enjoy doing it. Attachment 247218Attachment 247219Attachment 247220

In Ontario, surveyors and marine techs are in extremely short supply and maintenance has become quite difficult. Over the last few years, all of the surveyors (with 2 exceptions) that I respect have retired. Almost all of the techs I respected have retired and there are no new ones coming into the business other than those whose only qualification is that they had $40 for business cards.

I feel bad for the many covid season newbs who have bought into the boating dream over the last two years. Most of them won't be able to get their boats off the docks next summer because they can't get techs and they can't do it themselves.

I'm guessing a major market downturn 1yr from now when theses newbs realize how deep they are in.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

.

I feel bad for the many covid season newbs who have bought into the boating dream over the last two years. Most of them won't be able to get their boats off the docks next summer because they can't get techs and they can't do it themselves.

I'm guessing a major market downturn 1yr from now when theses newbs realize how deep they are in.

That's and interesting observation and I agree that the market tide will go out again as the Covid impulse buyer decides to bail out, or learn a trade.

Add a few scares like GPS systems being hacked and maybe remote anchorages will again be reserved for those who can navigate.

[parkstone bay]

Originally Posted by maijipo

After the survey should you buy about over his market value set by the expert?

I am a bit confused by the concept.

First the survey state that the typical value asked is between 125k and 150k for this type of vessel but then the market value is set to 90K. The survey didn't find any big issue and everything is above average. I signed for 100K.

I am interested to understand the role of the market value and if a buyer should even consider paying more than that value.

Thx you.

You're obviously not an economist! The "value" of a good or service is simply the amount of money that someone is prepared to pay for it - no more and no less; and that, by definition, is its market value; indeed it can't have any other sort of value. You and the seller struck a deal, that was the value of that boat at that moment: its market value. It doesn't matter whether a similar boat only sold for 50k or another one made 150K - your boat's value at the moment you made the deal was 100K.
(Of course, a trader, in any commodity, hopes to make his money by buying his stock cheap, and selling it dear. How he achieves that end, so as he hasn't broken the law, is immaterial. Typically, though, he "adds value" by some process: he moves the goods from one location to another, he carries out an operation of some kind, or maybe he simply warehouses the goods, and gambles on a future shortage of whatever it is in the future.).
The price of anything is set by two things: supply and demand.
As regards valuation by a surveyor: it's no more than one man's best guess.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by parkstone bay

As regards valuation by a surveyor: it's no more than one man's best guess.

I completely agree. If one has diligently found a good surveyor with vast experience in the market and access to tools not available to the general public, his "best guess" will be better than most.

[Riggerman]

Bought mine at $57,000 insurance value was $180,000.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

There are some surveyors like that but the ones that I know, respect and recommend don't play that game. We strive to come up with as accurate a "Fair Market Value" as possible and refuse to be influenced by brokers, buyers and/or sellers

Then you would appear to be the exception. Of course most won't claim 400-500% of the real value but 10-30%, in a heartbeat.