Missing yacht near Barbados..

[JPA Cate]

Polux, there are a number of causes of possible dizziness, ranging from a pinched nerve from tipping your head back, like in doing spinnaker trim, to a drop in blood pressure. Generally, with the latter, the person starts to feel unwell some time before passing out. That feeling of malaise, of needing to sit in the cockpit a moment, that is the warning, and it can go on for quite a while before the person passes out.

I am sorry your wife required emergency surgery, had to be helicoptered out. I did, once, too, a long time ago, and I, too, would have been dead had it been at sea. It had nothing to do with my years, but I developed a femoral hernia that strangulated, the hypothesis the surgeon offered when I asked what made it happen was that it was because I was "skinny".

Even if more elders are requiring rescue, and I kind of doubt that, might that not simply be because there are more elders out sailing now who have taken up sailing later in life? and because communications have improved?

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

Hi, yes I continue to live on the boat and cruise 5 or 6 month on a year. All well with you and your wife?

This year for the first time we had health problems with my wife that is 65 year old. Even if she had never had a significant health problem in her life and we had made health checks before the sailing season.

This time I had to put her on a fast ferry to Athens for a surgery. All went well but it would not be the case if we were sailing on the middle of the Atlantic, many days away from health care.

Part oh knowing your limits is to know that after 65 years of age health problems, some needed urgent care are much more prone to happen and if happen they will not only demand fast care but give an incapacity to continue sailing the boat.

You are a lucky guy because your wife is able to sail the boat alone but that is not the case with most of our wives. Mine can help with sailing but is not able to sail the boat alone even if I tried hard along the years to teach her. Unfortunately, like many, she is just not interested.

I don't complain because if I compare her with the wives of many friends I am quite lucky because if I sail the boat she does not complain (except if I sail on really bad whether) and is quite happy to live half a year on the boat almost always on the move. I can tell you that in what regards average she is better than most than I know and I know many.

The diference from a 40 year old obese and out of shape guy and a guy with over 65 years old is that on that first case it is a personal choice. Normally if someone is doing sailing it is normal that maintains a good degree of fitness, comes with the territory and even if someone is overweight that can be modified.

Unfortunately the health problems that come over 65 are just related with age decay and cannot be improved. I mean you can maintain a high physical fitness but that will not diminish significantly the risk of a heart attack or a stroke (AVC) and in some cases even increase it if the exercise is too much.

Unlike the case of a fat guy with 40, that is just a particular case and not an average, people over 65 year old in average have a much higher possibility of having serious health problems that make them unable to continue sailing or even make imperative fast health care for survival.

We are talking here about risk and statistics and that's why all sailing insurances that have to do with research in case of accident, rescue, costs of returning home if a voyage has to be stopped and health care for sailors have as limit 65 year of age.

That does not mean that a guy with over 65 could not successfully circumnavigate and many have done so, the point is that in average he will have much more risks to have an accident, due to health problems and do to diminished fitness that can have or not with those health problems.

Again, that is why insurance companies don't insure sailors over 65 in what regards research costs or rescue costs in case of an accident.

But the case here the one I started to discuss was not about a guy with 65 years of age but about a sailor that was 74 years old when he started a circumnavigation and that would have 78 when he finished it, the sailor that went overboard.

All those risks regarding sailing that are increased by age and that lead insurance companies that insure rescues or research costs to refuse insurance over 65 are much, much higher at 74/78 than at 65 years of age.

Stating that (in average) a guy with 74 to 78 years of age will not take much more risks doing a 4 year old circumnavigation than a guy with 40 makes not any sense.

I would say that it is even ridiculous...but that is what most are defending on this thread

Polux, sorry to hear about your wife's health issue, hopefully she will have a full recovery. Yes my wife is the picture of health and is pretty handy even doing or helping with boat jobs so I'm a lucky guy. She doesn't have the upper body strength to winch me up the mast so that's her job and in some ways she's kinda of a guy with boobs because she's very mechanically minded and good with wrenches and can actually sail but she prefers that I do most of the sailing unless we are on a long passage.

I'm sure your personal experiences with your wife's health are colouring your views on this subject and that's understandable. Have a great year. R

[Charlie]

I don't know what qualifies as old around here. I am 54. People sharing their experiences on sailing into 60's, 70's, and 80's is really raising my spirits. People are too worried about safety in my opinion.

I'd rather die with my boots on (as the old saying goes) then waste away in an old folks home.

But no reason to die unnecessarily. Seem like having your mate be able to operate the boat is a very important aspect of sailing for a cruising couple.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Charlie

I don't know what qualifies as old around here. I am 54. People sharing their experiences on sailing into 60's, 70's, and 80's is really raising my spirits. People are too worried about safety in my opinion.

I'd rather die with my boots on (as the old saying goes) then waste away in an old folks home.

But no reason to die unnecessarily. Seem like having your mate be able to operate the boat is a very important aspect of sailing for a cruising couple.

Good summary, Charlie. Despite Polux's concerns, I think I'll continue to go to sea until I start to feel incompetent... I don't really care what he thinks.

So far, Ann and I have simply modified our plans and expectations to compensate for reduced ability (which we don't deny). Have not yet required rescue at sea, hope to continue that streak. And I don't really buy the insurance argument, for those companies continue to charge much higher premiums for simple offshore work than they do for coastal work, despite the obvious greater hazard density inshore... their bean counters count some strange beans!

Jim

[davil]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Hope it doesn't make you more confident and therefore more likely to fall overboard.

As an aside; Preparing for offshore I discovered my list of compulsary safety gear such as life jackets, life rings, lifeboat, needed to be labelled with name of vessel. .....:

There was a recent thread in case you missed quite helpful,made me think and use some of their ideas to incorporate a quick release to my safety harness.


Quick release VS hard tie in of tether to PFD

[Mr B]

I have a quick release on my chest harness, from the jackline,
Its five, half inch balls on a string thats very easy to grab and pull, In the middle of my chest,
It works, as I pull on it to take the chest harness off,

The only way I would ever see that being used, In Anger, is if the boat overturns, or I get dismasted and the wreckage has pulled me over board,
My jack line is connected to the boom and the mast,

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Polux

........


Again, that is why insurance companies don't insure sailors over 65 in what regards research costs or rescue costs in case of an accident.

.....

My full coverage vessel insurance policy does not cover search costs for sailors under or over 65. So that's not much of an argument.

[davil]

the only system MOB with hundred per cent survival rate is not going overboard.
This study was verified.

[Mr B]

The best and most fully inclusive insurances in the world, Boat, Body, 3rd Party,

Even a Direct Phone line to God,

Wont save you, If your a MOB in a very big ocean,

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Good summary, Charlie. Despite Polux's concerns, I think I'll continue to go to sea until I start to feel incompetent... I don't really care what he thinks.

So far, Ann and I have simply modified our plans and expectations to compensate for reduced ability (which we don't deny). Have not yet required rescue at sea, hope to continue that streak. And I don't really buy the insurance argument, for those companies continue to charge much higher premiums for simple offshore work than they do for coastal work, despite the obvious greater hazard density inshore... their bean counters count some strange beans!

Jim

Jim.. if you get warning signs pain in arm tightening chest induce coughing from deep down before you pass out and keep it going spaced every few seconds.. the theory is this keeps bump starting the heart naturally and keeps you alive till help arrives or you recover rythym..
As for PFD's and harnesses.. still do not use them..

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

...

I am sorry your wife required emergency surgery, had to be helicoptered out. I did, once, too, a long time ago, and I, too, would have been dead had it been at sea. It had nothing to do with my years, but I developed a femoral hernia that strangulated, the hypothesis the surgeon offered when I asked what made it happen was that it was because I was "skinny"

Ah...I believe what you are describing was an "incarcerated" femoral hernia and that can/does indeed happen when a person is "small" (i.e. not fat) and has over exerted him/her self, straining/ripping the pelvic and lower abdominal muscles. (Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.)

FWIW, as one "ages" one needs make adjustments, using "brains" rather than brawn to solve issues. Of course, as one ages, one also gains the experience needed to avoid "issues" to begin with. If I/We stop doing the things we love simply because we're getting older, what's the point of getting older? Sitting in a rocker on the back deck thinking of things that used to be? Simply for the sake of some unfulfilling longevity? I don't think so, nor do most of the folks we know, most all of whom are out sailing, going, doing. And quite happily.

Here Homer Nods....

[picklesandjesse]

Originally Posted by boatman61

As for PFD's and harnesses.. still do not use them..

Neither do I. Makes me hang on real tight. And I mean tight !!! I noticed Alex Thomson not wearing one and running round the deck in The Southern Ocean.....filmed from a Helicopter in the last Vendee Globe Race.

[boatman61]

A better version I copied and pasted
Please pause for 2 minutes and read this:

1. Let’s say it’s 7.25pm and you’re going home (alone of course) after an unusually hard day on the job.
2. You’re really tired, upset and frustrated.
3 Suddenly you start experiencing severe pain in your chest that starts to drag out into your arm and up in to your jaw. You are only about five km from the hospital nearest your home.
4. Unfortunately you don’t know if you’ll be able to make it that far.
5. You have been trained in CPR, but the guy who taught the course did not tell you how to perform it on yourself.
6. HOW TO SURVIVE A HEART ATTACK WHEN ALONE? Since many people are alone when they suffer a heart attack without help, the person whose heart is beating improperly and who begins to feel faint, has only about 10 seconds left before losing consciousness.
7. However, these victims can help themselves by coughing repeatedly and very vigorously. A deep breath should be taken before each cough, and the cough must be deep and prolonged, as when producing sputum from deep inside the chest. A breath and a cough must be repeated about every two seconds without let-up until help arrives, or until the heart is felt to be beating normally again.
8. Deep breaths get oxygen into the lungs and coughing movements squeeze the heart and keep the blood circulating. The squeezing pressure on the heart also helps it regain normal rhythm. In this way, heart attack victims can get to a hospital.
9. Tell as many other people as possible about this. It could save their lives!!
10. A cardiologist says If everyone who gets this mail kindly sends it to 10 people, you can bet that we’ll save at least one life.
11. Rather than sending jokes, please... contribute by forwarding this mail which can save a person’s life.
12. If this message comes around you... more than once… please don’t get irritated... You should instead, be happy that you have many friends who care about you & keeps reminding you how to deal with a Heart attack.



Hold your finger down on the message and hit forward.

[Paul L]

British Heart Association

. The ‘cough CPR’ myth has been circulating the internet for a while now, especially on social media sites such as Facebook. If you come across it, please avoid spreading it any further and consider letting the person who posted it know that there’s no truth in it.

The American Heart Association has a similar, though more nuanced, position.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Paul L

My full coverage vessel insurance policy does not cover search costs for sailors under or over 65. So that's not much of an argument.

No, there are proper insurances for that, the ones I had posted that include that, more rescue costs as well costs due to have to interrupt a voyage due to accident or health problems, medical costs and costs of repatriation.

I posted American, UK and French ones. They all have as limit to be insured 65 years of age.