Motor sailor definition.

[Pelagic]

That formula would suggest to me that most cruising boats would be considered motorsailors

[DMF Sailing]

I'm sticking to my guns on this, dagnabit.

A motorsailer is a certain kind of vessel, described well by many in this thread.

A motor sailor is a person who is motor sailing (i.e. steering a boat that is being propelled forward by sail and engine concurrently)

Therefore, 99 % of the vessels on ICW can be motor sailing even though they are not all motorsailers.

See also: Day sailor/daysailing vs daysailer. I can be day sailing on a Hanse 375 even though she is a cruiser, not a daysailer. And if I never cruise on her, and just go out for afternoon sails around the cans, I'm a day sailor.

Finally, cruising can be done on a daysailer, if you've got a good tent and a knack for timing tides, just as sailing can be done on a motorsailer, if you are in no hurry.

[dannc]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

...

They are a narrow segment of the market. For builders such as Willard who have made both trawler and motorsailor versions, the MS has the least market appeal if resale is an indicator.

Attached Pic is a Diesel Duck, about the only current production MS style boat I can think of.

Peter

I don't think Buehler, may he RIP, called the Diesel Ducks, as he originally designed the sail plane, a motor sailor. He called it a sail assist. It was designed to get the boat to some port somewhere, maybe not where you wanted to go, but where the boat could go with the sail plan, if the engine went kaput. I do know one owner HAD to use the sail plan once or twice because of engine problems.

Course, some owners put in ketch rigs, I know of three, and oddly enough, they were all painted red.

Off those three ketches I have read, and been told by one of the owners, it sailed well enough, on certain points of sail, but it certainly was not fast. I think this is because the DD 462 displace around 70K pounds and the sail plans were simply not large enough to handle the weight. But I suppose one could argue that the Diesel Ducks ketches are motor sailors.

Buehler also called his Diesel Ducks trollers but everyone seems to call them trawlers, yet so many boats are called trawlers, which they certainly are not.

She would discuss what is, and is not, a Yawl?

Later,
Dan

[Adelie]

There are 2 uses for “motor-sailor”.

Verb- to use a motor and prop to propel a boat while also using the sails to propel the boat.
This is often times done when a sailboat with plenty of sail area uses the motor to maintain a higher speed than current winds would normally propel the boat or than the motor would be able to achieve alone.

Noun- A boat optimized for propulsion by both motor and sail under most conditions. Generally the there is significantly less sail area than a comparable sized sailboat and the motor is often smaller than a similar sized powerboat. The goal is likely increased fuel economy and perhaps a more comfortable ride than a powerboat would provide but less work handling sails than a sailboat. Reasons for wanting a noun motorsailor will vary by owner.

[StuM]

IMNSHO:
US tend to call the type of vessel under discussion a "motorsailor", much of the rest of the world (me included) call it a "motorsailer". Note that both are one word (and not hyphenated either).

The latter is the logical spelling

"Motor sailing" is using engine assist while sailing (or sail assist when motoring).

A "motor sailor" is a sailor who motors when he could be sailing

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by StuM

IMNSHO:
US tend to call the type of vessel under discussion a "motorsailor", much of the rest of the world (me included) call it a "motorsailer". Note that both are one word (and not hyphenated either).

The latter is the logical spelling

"Motor sailing" is using engine assist while sailing (or sail assist when motoring).

A "motor sailor" is a sailor who motors when he could be sailing

Hi Stu.....
What does a nervous sailor have?
....seman tics [emoji6]

[IoannisD]

Originally Posted by StuM

Something with a motor and sails, which neither motors nor sails efficiently?

Or "something with a motor and sails that can both motor and/or sail efficiently"

[jbrasseul]

Originally Posted by Lucky Luke 1

Forgive me if its a silly question.
What defines a motor sailor from a sail boat? Seems most sail boats have a motor..

I had both, a Nauticat 36 and a Nordship 38.
The Nauticat is a motorsailer, the Nordship a sailboat.
Nauticat is Finnish, Nordship is Danish. Scandinavian boats both.

The difference is you can't go against the wind by sail with a motorsailer. And crossing oceans or doing long passages is not advised. And it rolls a lot.
So I sold the Nauticat and got the Nordship, way better.

PS It's all here, from the beginning (Nauticat) and then Nordship :
https://jbrasseul.wordpress.com/

[IoannisD]

Originally Posted by jbrasseul

I had both, a Nauticat 36 and a Nordship 38.
The Nauticat is a motorsailer, the Nordship a sailboat.
Nauticat is Finnish, Nordship is Danish. Scandinavian boats both.

The difference is you can't go against the wind by sail with a motorsailer. And crossing oceans or doing long passages is not advised. And it rolls a lot.
So I sold the Nauticat and got the Nordship, way better.

PS It's all here, from the beginning (Nauticat) and then Nordship :
https://jbrasseul.wordpress.com/

Well, I have a heavy Finnsailer 35 - sails upwind just fine for my needs at avg 4 kn without engine. Motorsails (Nanni 85HP at 1600 rpm) avg 7-8 kn close hauled or close-reach...

[dpreacher]

What I've noticed is that SAILboats have sa/d ratios above about 13/14, where MOTORsailors run down in the 8-10 area. Again, like they said, most MOTORsailors also have pilothouses. I'm looking for a pilothouse SAILboat with an sa/d ratio up in the 14-15 area. They are out there, but most will need more mast to be where I want.

[jbrasseul]

Great, thanks for the info.

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by StuM

Something with a motor and sails, which neither motors nor sails efficiently?

Actually, that sounds idealistic, but is not true.
My Cal 2-46 sailed very well. I made very near 200 mile days on several passages that we did. It was a boat well ahead of its time. It was the 5th cruising boat that I lived aboard and cruised, and was clearly the best. Even better than my KP 44.
It had a galley with 14 feet of counter space, a walk in engine room, and motored better than some trawlers with nearly a 2000 mile motoring range. Sounds like a pipe dream but just ask anyone that has seriously cruised these vessels. And tons ot them have circumnavigated! All boats are a set of compromises. But this is the best set that I ever found. One of their secrets in the motoring ability is a 3:1 reduction ratio swinging a large 3 blade 26” prop. The downfall of so many cruisers is a 1.5-2:1 reduction and small prop. A feather prop gave you even better sailing, but I had a fixed and it sure didn’t hold me back much. Again, unless you are doing the traditional trade wind milk run, most cruisers find that they motor nearly 50% of the time. I am referring to the more common live aboard vintaged cruisers that most of us can afford. Not modern hi-performance monos and multi’s. No, it wasn’t an up wind screamer but pointed as good as many cruisers. And if you ever really had to claw you way off a lee shore, she could motor straight into a gale, and with nearly 300 gal of diesel, lots of capability.
So, don’t over simplify. This boat does all three well: live aboard, sail, motor. Again, ask anyone that has cruised one how they like it.

[Nomad57]

Ted Brewer's take:


https://goodoldboat.com/dissecting-the-motorsailer/


Nomad

[keyspc]

As the owner of a Bombay motorsailor I can tell you easily why the are so rare!!
This is the smallest damn 31ft boat i have ever seen, while the Bombay clipper and Island Packet are some of the most roomy 31 footers the motorsailer version is cramped inside and out due to having the powerboat cabin and sailboat cockpit.
I once had a 27ft chris craft and the layout is almost the same with the exception of the berth which is a single.
the pros though are the ability to sit comfortable inside and drive and the 7kn underpower, roller furling main and foresail are easy for single hander to deal with. Shallow draft and handles more like a commercial fishing boat then a sailboat, I just jam it on in the dock without a lot of issues.

[MVNightWatch]

Originally Posted by chrisr

...but motors better than a sailing boat and sails better than a motor boat ?

cheers,

And, I may add has twice as much chance of getting you back home alive!

Seriously, motor sailors like my little 27 foot Dutch built Dartsailer27 have limitations on how far they can heel. My diesel engine does not want to go past 15°. Motor sailors typically like to sail more upright. And are heavier, both in the build and in their gross tonnage.