Musk says Starlink will work on boats

[dannc]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

..

I'm told that the laser birds won't stack as well, & SpaceX won't be able to launch 60 of them at a whack on a Falcon9. Anyone know how many will fit now? Guess we'll find out in a few weeks.
...

Take this with a grain or two of salt, but off the top of my head, I think the Falcon9 can "only" launch 50 of the "laser" satellites at a time.

Later,
Dan

[goboatingnow]

I gather Spacex has paused launches to actually fit more lasers to the satellites

[Hydro]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I gather Spacex has paused launches to actually fit more lasers to the satellites

only a matter of time before the inevitable....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBxYoaAbG24

[Jon Hacking]

SpaceX Preps 'Ruggedized' Starlink Dish for Cars, Boats, and Planes

This PC Magazine article is about 6 weeks old now, but it sounds like a step in the right direction.

Excerpt:

SpaceX is working on a “ruggedized” version of its Starlink dish designed to work outside cars, boats, and planes and in harsh climates.

SpaceX filed an application with the FCC on Tuesday to operate the so-called “high-performance” Starlink dish. The hardware still relies on a phased array antenna to receive the high-speed internet from SpaceX satellites in orbit.

“But these high-performance models will operate with higher gain and lower transmit power (thus maintaining a consistent EIRP compared to other SpaceX Services user terminals), a higher scan angle, and features that ruggedize the unit for use in harsh environments,” the company wrote in the application.

Lower power would be good for us, as the current user terminals draw about 100W, which is a bit much for most boats to leave on for very long. The tricky part will be getting the narrower beam to stay on the bird while the boat is doing the watoosie underneath it. Hopefully the gyro & compass sensors, as well as the SW, will be up to that task.

Also, per the previous conversation, we now know that SpaceX can put 51 of their laser-equipped birds into the nose of a Falcon9 rocket. Apparently, the recent delay in launches is because SpaceX wants all the rest of the birds to be laser equipped. As I understand it, most launches in the near future will be from CA, to put them into polar orbits.

[goboatingnow]

I’m not sure any of these LEO solutions will deliver , I’m never sure where the intended market is. Iridium is a case in point , the spread of GSM even in poorer areas totally undermined iridiums base.

Simply building all this to service sea based transport isn’t going to fly

Where is the economies of scale going to come from.

For example in Ireland , one of the least densely populated areas in Europe , the government is funding fibre broadband installation ( budget about 7 billion euros) Once that initial infrastructure is in , the “ on” costs are very low as a result I can get 1Gb/s ( claimed ) service for about €30 a month and even cheaper for fractional rates.

This is well below starlinks intended price points. ( there is a starlink trial in Ireland at present )

In the meantime poorer countries or those with significant topology issues , are investing in 4G and 5G solutions this will deliver high speed broadband to dispersed communities

Also don’t forget the country by country regulatory hurdles starlink faces. France for example once banned iridium. countries like to control their telecommunications

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by Jon Hacking

SpaceX Preps 'Ruggedized' Starlink Dish for Cars, Boats, and Planes

This PC Magazine article is about 6 weeks old now, but it sounds like a step in the right direction.

Excerpt:


Lower power would be good for us, as the current user terminals draw about 100W, which is a bit much for most boats to leave on for very long. The tricky part will be getting the narrower beam to stay on the bird while the boat is doing the watoosie underneath it. Hopefully the gyro & compass sensors, as well as the SW, will be up to that task.

Also, per the previous conversation, we now know that SpaceX can put 51 of their laser-equipped birds into the nose of a Falcon9 rocket. Apparently, the recent delay in launches is because SpaceX wants all the rest of the birds to be laser equipped. As I understand it, most launches in the near future will be from CA, to put them into polar orbits.

John, electronically steered like the radar on an Aegis class navy ship.
The only thing the servos are for, is to get the dish to the approximate elevation angle, for the latitude.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In the meantime poorer countries or those with significant topology issues , are investing in 4G and 5G solutions this will deliver high speed broadband to dispersed communities

I think your skepticism about finding a market niche for StarLink is well founded. I hope we're wrong and it is successful enough that us relatively few cruisers can take advantage of it at reasonable rates.

But I also question the value of 5G. Apparently the range is incredibly short. Like, antennae on every street corner short. I'm no expert, but again it seems like rural areas are being ignored. Justifiably so, since again the market just doesn't support that technology anywhere but in urban areas.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

But I also question the value of 5G. Apparently the range is incredibly short. Like, antennae on every street corner short. I'm no expert, but again it seems like rural areas are being ignored. Justifiably so, since again the market just doesn't support that technology anywhere but in urban areas.

It depends on what frequency band it's deployed in. Higher frequency 5G is very fast, but very short range. Somewhat lower frequencies are still fast, but with significantly longer range. And then some carriers are deploying lower frequency 5G that's got pretty long range, but is only slightly faster than 4G.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It depends on what frequency band it's deployed in. Higher frequency 5G is very fast, but very short range. Somewhat lower frequencies are still fast, but with significantly longer range. And then some carriers are deploying lower frequency 5G that's got pretty long range, but is only slightly faster than 4G.

Good low latency 4G actually delivers a good internet experience.

[bcboomer]

What's the range of 4G?
There are vast areas of the world with significant populations. Much of North America isn't served by Fibre optic cable and many are paying too much for crappy intermittent service.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

What's the range of 4G?
There are vast areas of the world with significant populations. Much of North America isn't served by Fibre optic cable and many are paying too much for crappy intermittent service.

This what iridium thought ( for voice) It didn’t work out well for them .

Vast areas of the world don’t have significant populations and often many have no financial means to purchase expensive sat links.

Where there are remaining significant populations governments are racing to extend wired or wireless terrestrial systems.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’m not sure any of these LEO solutions will deliver , I’m never sure where the intended market is. Iridium is a case in point , the spread of GSM even in poorer areas totally undermined iridiums base.

Simply building all this to service sea based transport isn’t going to fly

Where is the economies of scale going to come from.

For example in Ireland , one of the least densely populated areas in Europe , the government is funding fibre broadband installation ( budget about 7 billion euros) Once that initial infrastructure is in , the “ on” costs are very low as a result I can get 1Gb/s ( claimed ) service for about €30 a month and even cheaper for fractional rates.

This is well below starlinks intended price points. ( there is a starlink trial in Ireland at present )

In the meantime poorer countries or those with significant topology issues , are investing in 4G and 5G solutions this will deliver high speed broadband to dispersed communities

Also don’t forget the country by country regulatory hurdles starlink faces. France for example once banned iridium. countries like to control their telecommunications

It's not just for sea based transport - target market would be anything that moves - trucks, trains, planes, RV'ers, boats, ships, megayachts, military. This broadens the market considerably. You cited a rural area in Ireland, but there are lots of hard to reach places that will never get funding for high speed internet - especially once the Starlink constellation is complete I guarantee governments won't see the value in spending millions or billions of dollars to develop fiber infrastructure to areas that can get reliable and fast satellite internet.

[bcboomer]

Starlink doesn't require very expensive hardware. The dish is pretty affordable for what it does and there are a lot of people in rural areas waiting for them.
Small remote communities can pool to share a dish.
I wouldn't bet against Musk on this venture.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Starlink doesn't require very expensive hardware. The dish is pretty affordable for what it does and there are a lot of people in rural areas waiting for them.
Small remote communities can pool to share a dish.
I wouldn't bet against Musk on this venture.

We shall see

[dannc]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

Starlink doesn't require very expensive hardware. The dish is pretty affordable for what it does and there are a lot of people in rural areas waiting for them.
Small remote communities can pool to share a dish.
I wouldn't bet against Musk on this venture.

MOST of the people in rural areas in the US have very poor internet speeds. We have 1.5 mbps service. Yes, you read that right. Reliability is awful. The service provider had taken millions of tax dollars to improve the network but the rural areas, for which the tax money is supposed to serve, are still shafted. This is a nationwide company.

We also pay for a 4G based connection and it works but it is expensive and connection speed depends on how many people are connected. It is not a great solution.

We are lucky in that we have service at all. Many places cannot get cell service or landline DSL so they are stuck with the the geosynchronous orbit satellite services which have severe data limits and problems with VPNs.

Starlink is not for people in urban areas. It s for areas of the WORLD with limited, poor, nor no Internet access.

5G is going to be problematic in non urban areas because the range is so limited, as in 1,000-1,500 feet. Antennae will have to be on power poles all over the place AND some areas do not have power poles. I think cell providers are going to have to get access to the power poles which will be interesting from a legal and cost perspective.

Later,
Dan