My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

[daletournier]

Here's an example of money that is unnecessary to spend.

My electric sheet winch failed 6 mths ago. The windings on the electric motor failed.

I phoned harken Australia, they could get me a new electric motor, had to come from Italy, $1900usd, that's just insane, electric motors aren't rare modern technology.

There's a guy in Cairns that rewinds motors, $250 aud. I ripped it of myself, sent it away, had it rewound and refitted it. Approximately $1700 usd saved plus what ever labour to remove and refit would of been, just not rocket science (isn't there a cool boat with that name?)

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by poiu

Well, you have now. My 8 yr spend is $80k. That gets a full standing rod rigging replacement and 3 laminate sails. It's my biggest boating expense after depreciation.

Motor boating is cheaper than sailing in my experience, just as you suggest.

You guys need to peel that sticker that says "Oyster" of the side of your boat. Wow, you just wouldn't want to do that often.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by daletournier

You guys need to peel that sticker that says "Oyster" of the side of your boat. Wow, you just wouldn't want to do that often.

It's absolutely nothing to do with Oyster. These parts are generic boat parts. It's a lot of money because it is quite a big boat. If it's too much then it's time to say "My boat's too big" It would be less than a tenth of that cost on a 26' boat.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by poiu

It's absolutely nothing to do with Oyster. These parts are generic boat parts. It's a lot of money because it is quite a big boat. If it's too much then it's time to say "My boat's too big" It would be less than a tenth of that cost on a 26' boat.

I was joking.... I should of put one of those little smiley faces at the end[emoji1]

[Joli]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Do you get all the work done in a yard? or do you do it yourself?

Some we do ourselves, some we hire out, it depends on the job. We (my wife and I) are both engineers and have spent decades on boats, we can do a lot but some jobs require man hours, skills, facilities and equipment we don't have.

Stripping, re-epoxy and 4 coats of bottom paint took 4 guys several weeks to do, the cost was 4 figures.

Sails are sails, the main is over 1,000 sq ft and the jibs are larger, kites are over 4,000 sq ft. The prices are what they are.

Electronics this year included Furuno radar, three monitors (two cockpits) Maretron cabling throughout the boat, repeaters, sensors... Costs were $25,000 but could have been double or triple that number with more and/or better gear...

Topside refinish, deck refinish are $250/ft and $500/ft respectively for a 61 footer.

Spar refit included standing rigging, cordage, turnbuckles, repairs, kevlar runners, transport to and from the shop, remove and re step, strip and repaint with Awlgrip (if the spar is painted any nick or chip must be fixed to prevent corrosion) so $50~60k. Airdraft is 93 foot, weight is several thousand pounds.

Daschews have reported 1% of new replacement costs for their sailing yachts, I think they've found powerboats to be cheaper to operate then sail, even with the cost of fuel. I don't have Mr. Daschews skill sets or contacts to negotiate lower costs, we average 1.7% of new replacement cost annually for how we maintain the boat, it could be higher, but we like most here have a budget.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1...FBaUlhudHFaenc

[NevisDog]

All of the above information I will (shortly) distill into Maximum/minimum ten year averages and plan (or keep on dreaming) from there. Thanks all for taking time to provide accurate costings for larger boats - a really useful exercise for us lesser mortals.

[TJ D]

It's pretty tough to put a number on any of these 'big boat' expenses, honestly. Pricing is really all over the map.

Here are a few quick thoughts.

I have a Hall Spars carbon mast, with rod rigging. I sailed my boat to Rhode Island, and had Hall change my standing rigging (rod). It cost $8600, including unstepping/restepping the mast. The Kevlar bits-runners and inner forestay-cost another 2k the year before.

So, we have one of the premiere rigging shops doing the whole job for 10k. I didn't do a thing, just wrote a check.

A couple of years before, I had a prominent SF bay area yard quote me somewhere close to double for the same work!

For sails, we have a carbon/technora laminate setup. The main is 880ft, the jib 600, plus or minus.

North quoted me nearly 50k for working sails. I found a hungry Quantum loft who built the sails to exactly my spec (bulletproof), and got them for 26k. Still a lot of money, but there's a huge variation in pricing between lofts, and even between lofts of the same company.

I've had North bid on a couple of sails for me recently, and depending on who was making the quote, there was a difference of nearly 30% for identical sails. So, it pays to shop around, for sure.

So, a lot of it's down to who you get for these things. Some folks want low cost regardless, some have a yard/rigger/loft that they like and trust, and are willing to pay a premium, the rest of us fall somewhere in the middle.

The point is that it's very hard to pin this expense ratio down.

TJ

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by TJ D

It's pretty tough to put a number on any of these 'big boat' expenses, honestly. Pricing is really all over the map.

Here are a few quick thoughts.

I have a Hall Spars carbon mast, with rod rigging. I sailed my boat to Rhode Island, and had Hall change my standing rigging (rod). It cost $8600, including unstepping/restepping the mast. The Kevlar bits-runners and inner forestay-cost another 2k the year before.

So, we have one of the premiere rigging shops doing the whole job for 10k. I didn't do a thing, just wrote a check.

A couple of years before, I had a prominent SF bay area yard quote me somewhere close to double for the same work!

For sails, we have a carbon/technora laminate setup. The main is 880ft, the jib 600, plus or minus.

North quoted me nearly 50k for working sails. I found a hungry Quantum loft who built the sails to exactly my spec (bulletproof), and got them for 26k. Still a lot of money, but there's a huge variation in pricing between lofts, and even between lofts of the same company.

I've had North bid on a couple of sails for me recently, and depending on who was making the quote, there was a difference of nearly 30% for identical sails. So, it pays to shop around, for sure.

So, a lot of it's down to who you get for these things. Some folks want low cost regardless, some have a yard/rigger/loft that they like and trust, and are willing to pay a premium, the rest of us fall somewhere in the middle.

The point is that it's very hard to pin this expense ratio down.

TJ

In other words, some businesses see you/us coming... so it saves a boatload of money to shop around.

North Sails in Sardinia quoted me nearly double the price for the same specifications as the sails I purchased in the UK. Same materials, same tri-radial cut, same everything.... nearly double the price.

I'm thinking that 2019 will be the year of the rigging replacement which I plan to do for under $12K complete, same specs, same supplier as OEM.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

In other words, some businesses see you/us coming... so it saves a boatload of money to shop around.

North Sails in Sardinia quoted me nearly double the price for the same specifications as the sails I purchased in the UK. Same materials, same tri-radial cut, same everything.... nearly double the price.

I'm thinking that 2019 will be the year of the rigging replacement which I plan to do for under $12K complete, same specs, same supplier as OEM.

'Hey, Bubba! We've got a live one here!'. Yes, I've had that sense on a number of occasions when I've first pulled into a yard. They always seem so disappointed when they find out I'm not a cash pinata to be whacked.

I don't mind paying a fair price for goods and services, but there are a ton of folks out there who seem to think that it's fine to charge as much as they think you're willing to pay.

Actually, that's fair, now that I come to think of it. Capitalism at its best!

[Kenomac]

Apparently, some pinatas get whacked more often and harder than others.

We avoid people with big sticks.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by TJ D

It's pretty tough to put a number on any of these 'big boat' expenses, honestly. Pricing is really all over the map.

Here are a few quick thoughts.

I have a Hall Spars carbon mast, with rod rigging. I sailed my boat to Rhode Island, and had Hall change my standing rigging (rod). It cost $8600, including unstepping/restepping the mast. The Kevlar bits-runners and inner forestay-cost another 2k the year before.

So, we have one of the premiere rigging shops doing the whole job for 10k. I didn't do a thing, just wrote a check.

A couple of years before, I had a prominent SF bay area yard quote me somewhere close to double for the same work!

For sails, we have a carbon/technora laminate setup. The main is 880ft, the jib 600, plus or minus.

North quoted me nearly 50k for working sails. I found a hungry Quantum loft who built the sails to exactly my spec (bulletproof), and got them for 26k. Still a lot of money, but there's a huge variation in pricing between lofts, and even between lofts of the same company.

I've had North bid on a couple of sails for me recently, and depending on who was making the quote, there was a difference of nearly 30% for identical sails. So, it pays to shop around, for sure.

So, a lot of it's down to who you get for these things. Some folks want low cost regardless, some have a yard/rigger/loft that they like and trust, and are willing to pay a premium, the rest of us fall somewhere in the middle.

The point is that it's very hard to pin this expense ratio down.

TJ

TJ, your numbers sound about right. Your very cool boat is a smallish 55 footer with a displacement of 21k and an air draft of 65', the rigging isn't going to be that costly. Also you can get away with medium tech mylar sails sails, the loads aren't so high they distort the sail. Yours is a custom boat so using a percentage is tough, maybe compare to what a new SC 52 might sell for?

Our loads are much higher (93' air draft and 65,000# displacement) and the costs associated with handling those loads are what they are. Our numbers are probably closer to that of an Oyster 66. If we buy inexpensive sails using low cost materials we'll be back to the sail loft in 2 years for a repeat.

Where does an Oyster 545 fall in this scenario? It looks like somewhere in between. It's a 45,000# boat with a price tag of about $1,200,000 new? So 1.5%~2.5% of new replacement cost is $18k to $30k annual maintenance. I thought it was a more expensive boat.

Always interesting discussing numbers.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by Joli

TJ, your numbers sound about right. Your very cool boat is a smallish 55 footer with a displacement of 21k and an air draft of 65', the rigging isn't going to be that costly. Also you can get away with medium tech mylar sails sails, the loads aren't so high they distort the sail. Yours is a custom boat so using a percentage is tough, maybe compare to what a new SC 52 might sell for?

Our loads are much higher (93' air draft and 65,000# displacement) and the costs associated with handling those loads are what they are. Our numbers are probably closer to that of an Oyster 66. If we buy inexpensive sails using low cost materials we'll be back to the sail loft in 2 years for a repeat.

Where does an Oyster 545 fall in this scenario? It looks like somewhere in between. It's a 45,000# boat with a price tag of about $1,200,000 new? So 1.5%~2.5% of new replacement cost is $18k to $30k annual maintenance. I thought it was a more expensive boat.

Always interesting discussing numbers.

First off, I hope that I wasn't misunderstood by anybody. I wasn't suggesting that some folks were getting ripped off or being foolish with their money,

The SC52 is probably a decent comparison for Rocket Science. Remember that the water ballast adds a lot of righting moment, loading the sails more than the displacement alone would indicate.

Also, our square footage for air draft is very high, as we're using a fat head main and have a very long retractable sprit (Her Jspin measurement is 32')

But, you're right, RS is very small compared to most 55's. She was built as a performance boat first. Interior volume was probably not considered even a little bit in her design.

I believe that the sail cloth that I specified 70/30 carbon/technora, 23,000 dpi is pretty close to what a boat of double our displacement would order. I went quite heavy. Certainly not a lightweight mylar disposable sail.

The point was mostly to illustrate that where you buy your equipment really matters, seeing as how I was quoted wildly different numbers for essentially identical sails, and nearly double for the same re-rig that Hall did for us.

Thanks for the compliment on the boat!

TJ

[Joli]

TJ, you have a fantastic boat, if you don’t have fun with your boat you may not have a pulse. I think you got Hall’s going out of business special!

We’re kind of limited to where we can go for spar work since it’s 100’ long but feel very fortunate to have a good spar maker 5 miles from where we haul for the winter. Bigger is nice but it can pose problems when work is needed to be done.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

True, diesel would cost less, but then you’d lose the joy of sailing!

I miss it sometimes, but then I mix myself a cocktail with plenty of ice, sit in the spa on the foredeck and forget about it.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I miss it sometimes, but then I mix myself a cocktail with plenty of ice, sit in the spa on the foredeck and forget about it.

That doesn't sound too good for your body though.

Hopefully you get to run a few miles or do weights a few times a week before you do the cocktail thing in the spa otherwise your muscles and testosterone levels could drop substantially