My boat's too big... I hear it all the time.

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Not so much philosophical, more a case of 'can I fix it myself (or just toss it and replace)?' If not then for some venturesome cruisers it has no place aboard. No one wants to spend their whole vacation repairing refrigeration systems, autopilots or watermakers - simplicity is king, at least on small boats.

Well, yes and no.

Sure, simplicity is king and all that, but how many people want to make their permanent home on a boat without refrigeration or an autopilot?

If we take that argument to its logical conclusion, we would be sailing without winches and using oil lamps down inside our cabins.

How many people want to camp out for a living? How many want to hand steer? (That wind vane doesn't work very well motoring, does it?), who wants to live without a fridge?

My wife's a hearty soul, but if I told her that we were abandoning all comforts for the sake of simplicity. I'd be in a house or a condo in about 6 weeks! I wouldn't like it either.

She's lived aboard with me full time for over 10 years, by the way. If she wants 110VAC at anchor to make her breakfast smoothie. She's going to get it. Happy wife, happy life!

[maijipo]

Originally Posted by aquadreams

For folks with basically philosophical objections I would point out that all of you have driven cars with hydraulic power assisted steering and don't have much concern about that. I've driven manual steering cars and much prefer power steering :-)

Joe

I do not think I was really thinking about philosophy at all, but more being practical. I was speaking about a 27 to 30 ft sailboat and i do not think that a lot of "technical muscle" assistance is needed, so in my case it just become a liability. Having say that, it is probably necessary for biggest boats or for very specific people. In some aspects, as many of us, we all have a certain level of technology helping us (plotter etc...)

At the end of the day, i believe sailing is as well a personal experience, some like to do it surrounded by all the available modern technology and others will prefer a more simple approach. We finally all meet in the sea

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by TJ D

... If we take that argument to its logical conclusion, we would be sailing without winches and using oil lamps down inside our cabins.

How many people want to camp out for a living? How many want to hand steer? (That wind vane doesn't work very well motoring, does it?), who wants to live without a fridge? ...

That's not a logical conclusion. LED lighting plus solar panels need no maintenance, radios, etc, need no maintenance - just replace when they break. We have no problem living without refrigeration. We don't (not even in flat calm) use the engine, except in close quarters, so wind vane is just fine (tillerpilots don't seem to last the distance); rain-catcher replaces water-maker, rowing substitutes for outboard (though wife prefers the little 2HP). With lots of room it may be sensible, p'hps even necessary, to fill up with gadgetry but with little room to spare it can be more convenient to go without the unnecessary complications and spend less time fixing things.

Of course if you can't live without refrigeration then you have to have it, if you can't wait out the calms then you need autopilot. Maybe big boat equates to not waiting for a tide or wind change, little boat means no urgency???

[TJ D]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

That's not a logical conclusion. LED lighting plus solar panels need no maintenance, radios, etc, need no maintenance - just replace when they break. We have no problem living without refrigeration. We don't (not even in flat calm) use the engine, except in close quarters, so wind vane is just fine (tillerpilots don't seem to last the distance); rain-catcher replaces water-maker, rowing substitutes for outboard (though wife prefers the little 2HP). With lots of room it may be sensible, p'hps even necessary, to fill up with gadgetry but with little room to spare it can be more convenient to go without the unnecessary complications and spend less time fixing things.

Of course if you can't live without refrigeration then you have to have it, if you can't wait out the calms then you need autopilot. Maybe big boat equates to not waiting for a tide or wind change, little boat means no urgency???

Hey, if it works for you, that's most excellent! There's no right or wrong way. For my part, when the wind drops to nothing-I'm motoring. I started cruising on a boat that was about the same size as yours. I motored with that one when it got calm too!

It probably has more to do with the person turning the key than the size of boat. I have no patience for sitting around on pasage going nowhere. Good on you for being able to do it.

But, even my 36 footer had a big battery bank, big alternator, refrigeration, etc, etc. I made one long cruise in 'basic' mode back in the late '80's and I'll take some domestic comforts and labor saving gadgets all day long. Not everyone wants it, and that's fine.

But, I can tell you-if you're ROWING your 33 footer- you are really in an extremely small minority.

Anyway, the stuff's so reliable, it really doesn't break that much. And, if it does, we just carry on if we can't fix it. But, I'm spending basically zero time fixing any of it. The watermaker's a pain, but we don't use it unless we're going to be away from water for 3 weeks or so, which is rare.

In the last 10 years, I have spend something less than 50 hours maintaining/repairing the fridge, watermaker, furler, and electric winch-combined. I don't get the maintenance argument, honestly. Maybe 25 years ago, but not these days.

We live on board full time, and sail lots of miles, too. The stuff is getting used.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by TJ D

... But, I can tell you-if you're ROWING your 33 footer- you are really in an extremely small minority. ...

Not quite. Long ago, I watched a little French lass propel a 25' sailboat out of Guernsey harbour with a sculling oar, easily steering among tightly crowded boats at several knots. Years later I tried to emulate that system on my 26' but could only move slowly backwards (I was rescued by a passing inflatable; my sculling oar was all wrong, and bendy). Haven't tried it since. My 55' will be a quinquireme though.

[Joli]

Eric Taberly sculled his 60’ Pen Duick but he was Eric Taberly.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Not so much philosophical, more a case of 'can I fix it myself (or just toss it and replace)?' If not then for some venturesome cruisers it has no place aboard. No one wants to spend their whole vacation repairing refrigeration systems, autopilots or watermakers - simplicity is king, at least on small boats.

I just never get this "stuck in port fixing things" yer sure I fix things but honestly the fridge once in 30k+nm, watermaker once, autopilot once (now). The amount of time saved by not lugging water over the years or hand steering, not to mention the great food because of the fridge freezer... this more than makes up for the moaning I do about fixing stuff at times.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by TJ D

Well, yes and no.

Sure, simplicity is king and all that, but how many people want to make their permanent home on a boat without refrigeration or an autopilot?

If we take that argument to its logical conclusion, we would be sailing without winches and using oil lamps down inside our cabins.

How many people want to camp out for a living? How many want to hand steer? (That wind vane doesn't work very well motoring, does it?), who wants to live without a fridge?

My wife's a hearty soul, but if I told her that we were abandoning all comforts for the sake of simplicity. I'd be in a house or a condo in about 6 weeks! I wouldn't like it either.

She's lived aboard with me full time for over 10 years, by the way. If she wants 110VAC at anchor to make her breakfast smoothie. She's going to get it. Happy wife, happy life!

It's not just the wife, take my comforts away and I'm out of here, I am not Larry Pardey ! I started with a Wharram, that me died, cappacino Dale took his place.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I just never get this "stuck in port fixing things"...

Does this mean in-mast furling and headsail reefing/furling systems are problem-free these days? Tiller-pilots seem to be just an endless source of trouble - not so with APs? Maybe small boat stuff is useless, or maybe I'm just unlucky?

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Does this mean in-mast furling and headsail reefing/furling systems are problem-free these days? Tiller-pilots seem to be just an endless source of trouble - not so with APs? Maybe small boat stuff is useless, or maybe I'm just unlucky?

You've probably read some of my posts on inmast furling as it's still relatively new to me (12mths 7000nm) but never been stuck in port due to it, in fact it hasn't let me down and at all, neither has the headsail furler. The electric winch broke, I then just furled it manually for a while, no problem.

There's always something to fix on a boat, but the time I spend doing it as a percentage is not that great, in fact I spend more time on this forum..... Note to self, get a life.

[Hasbeen]

For me cruising is to get to places you can't get to any other way. If I am going to some place where I'll find marinas, accommodation, restaurants, roads & traffic, I'd rather drive or fly.


When I get to my uninhabited island, reef anchorage, plantation or village, I will drop the gear, put up the awning & sit in the cockpit with a coffee.


If I am becalmed, in an area without dangerously strong tidal currents, [most of the islands], I might as well do it where I am. There will probably be some wind tomorrow.


If I am near an island, with water shallow enough to anchor, I will probably do that. Such places are usually very good for stocking the fridge with reef fish. I'll sail on tomorrow, if there is wind.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Not so much philosophical, more a case of 'can I fix it myself (or just toss it and replace)?' If not then for some venturesome cruisers it has no place aboard. No one wants to spend their whole vacation repairing refrigeration systems, autopilots or watermakers - simplicity is king, at least on small boats.

We spend very little time fixing things onboard, and even less time stuck in marinas. Zero days this past season. Of course we have spares for everything, purchased in the off-season at sale or bargain prices. I even purchased two brand new spare refrigeration systems right hear on CF. One is a complete Frigoboat freezer unit with a replacement cost of $2,000, bought right here for $500 plus shipping. Brand new still in the packaging. So now we have two spare working compressors onboard along with this brand new unit making it three spare compressors.

If one plans ahead, there are very few delays.... if any.

The plan is... if the ice maker kicks the bucket someday (it's 17 years old), the area it occupies will be made into a second fridge or second deep freezer; if it's even necessary at the time.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I just never get this "stuck in port fixing things" yer sure I fix things but honestly the fridge once in 30k+nm, watermaker once, autopilot once (now). The amount of time saved by not lugging water over the years or hand steering, not to mention the great food because of the fridge freezer... this more than makes up for the moaning I do about fixing stuff at times.

"The fridge freezer?"

Does this mean you have only one??

[maijipo]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Not quite. Long ago, I watched a little French lass propel a 25' sailboat out of Guernsey harbour with a sculling oar, easily steering among tightly crowded boats at several knots. Years later I tried to emulate that system on my 26' but could only move slowly backwards (I was rescued by a passing inflatable; my sculling oar was all wrong, and bendy). Haven't tried it since. My 55' will be a quinquireme though.

I remember when my dad was still sailing back in Europe, his small 22 feet (the first 22 actually had the attach for it) , the steering oar was still a requirements and very much use. Don't really remember he was using much the engine to go in / out (he had one of course )
Long time i did not see any. Not so easy to handle.

A lot of the "old way" are getting lost by the advance of technology. It is not good or bad, it is what it is. I believe that some countries in Europe, such as France, may still be more attach to some aspects of the traditional sailing. I am not completely sure...just a feeling. How many of us are still able to use Celestial Navigation? Not very much i would guess. We did become completely dependent of global positioning system (at least me...). That is one of the many examples.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by daletournier

... in fact I spend more time on this forum..... Note to self, get a life.

That made me think, why do I ask so many questions here? Then I realised it's like talking to a more knowledgable friend about things I should know, or may learn for myself, given another hundred years. The time I spend here is mostly enjoyable and has been of immeasurable value when needed. Often, this helps me get a life but I do try to give as well as take.