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Chief Engineer · 18-01-2009, 14:52

A judgement only say that the case has been decided in your favor.

If the person refuses to pay then you still have to take them to court....again.

Usually what happens is after the judgement, there are negotiations for payment.

In the case of work on a yacht, if the customer doesn't pay...you get a judgement and then file a lien...if that isn't paid....ya auction off the boat.

In this case you have to work to collect......it seems to me that for relatively small amounts, that you just get worn down with the time and aggravation....this is what lawyers dream about......that's why I on't work on lawyers vessels. HA HA

Soft Air · 18-01-2009, 15:19

Thanks Chief Engineer

that's why I on't work on lawyers vessels.

agree

**Pblais** · 18-01-2009, 18:34

Quote:

ALL the other sailing boards permit your to describe the problems and the companies you are dealing with and you should not hesitate to take advantage of them should a more conciliatory approach not work out.

Our rules don''t extend to other web sites but they do apply here. What other forums do is not our concern even if we don't agree with them. I can see your complaint has substance so I think you should seek a course that might lead to compensation.

Ranting here alone has never been that fruitful in the 6 years I've been here. Advice that yields results is better than anything else. There are thousands of posts here that do that.

No company ever went out of business because of a CF post yet thousands of members are helped. We allow ranting up to the point where the intent is hurtful. We know that won't be positive for any member. There has been good advice by several members here in this post. All of it was considered before posting. Many members helping just one member at a time is how we work the best. I know this happens several times every day across the world here. It happens from places as far away and you can draw the line and it all has the same intent - to help.

If anyone sees a post they think is hurtful, then click the triangle icon in the lower left of the post to report the post and the reason(s) why you think so. All reports are reviewed by more than one person. We don't discuss details in public or personal private information.

Bash · 18-01-2009, 19:05

If a member of this site discovers a marine product to be defective, and writes about his discoveries in a way that is informative rather than vindictive, I should hope that the moderators of this forum would have the wisdom not to exercise the powers of censorship that they've been granted by the site owner. Otherwise, this site will quickly lose any value it has as a source of reliable information for cruisers.

Chief Engineer · 18-01-2009, 19:05

If they allowed b*tching about Marinas, yards and the like, the board would not be worth visiting

hellosailor · 18-01-2009, 21:11

David-
"Patrick this is not necessarily true because attorneys are not allowed in small claims court. Its you against the defendant only." That's half right and half wrong in most states. The plaintiff usually has the OPTION to bring their own case or to use an attorney, but if one of the parties is a corporation--that corporation or other business entity is often REQUIRED to use an attorney.
The details may vary from venue to venue, but typically a corporation MUST hire an attorney and because that will cost them money, they often settle up before going to court and having to pay that fee.

Patrick, if you are still in Finland your options may be limited to the credit card chargeback. But if you have any of the sails--even using a child's toy microscope kit you should be able to see plainly whether the sail has picked up green dye, or has bits of other fibers embedded in it. You won't need formal forensics training to see what the fibers look like, probably 100x-400x magnification and these days, there are even USB video microscopes that plug into your computer and do that, IIRC $50-100 if you had to buy one.

Just look at an unaffected part of the sail, see what the fibers look like. Then look at the green part, see if there are stubbly bits of something green embedded, or if the fibers themselves have become green.

Either way I'd call it the retailer's problem for selling defective goods, but many retailers say the warranty is between you and the maker, so you may need to pursue them both and let them fight it out. Dunno what the law would be, in the US that might vary with the state, the express warranty (if you got one), and of course federal warranty laws which you can sometimes find on the ftc web site at www.ftc.gov

Often, if you can find specific violations under federal warranty law, the vendors change their story and pay up instead of paying attorney fees.

**Pblais** · 19-01-2009, 04:13

A bad experience has value to others only to the point that others might learn how to resolve it should they find themselves in a similar position. As sailors we resolve problems everyday and resolution is what we all want. How to resolve problems covers the bulk of the best reading material here.

Stories about how you didn't resolve it are better posted in the "Sailors Confessional" thread. We learn a lot from the failure of others but only when the post is about your failure from your point of view. The personal perspective story has great credibility and detail when told that way. Everybody likes a great sea story of resolution and redemption. Those stories tend to read better if the emphasis is on the redemption.

Quote:

If they allowed b*tching about Marinas, yards and the like, the board would not be worth visiting

The Chief colorfully illustrates one example. We are not prepared to create a definitive list of examples. Given there is no limit to personal resolution or redemption we should have plenty of material for all. Members here are very generous with help in the resolution of nautical puzzles, mysteries, and things mechanical as well as bar keeping. The current list is 238,819 examples long.

Chief Engineer · 19-01-2009, 11:05

I really like the idea of using a microscope...you could prbably even use one of thos chart magnifiers...kinda like being your own CSI.

hellosailor · 19-01-2009, 11:28

Couple or five years ago, for a while Intel sold USB microscopes that way, then they bailed out of the "consumer" products market real fast. Geeks and budget labs were snatching 'em up like mad, because they were toy priced, but a breakthrough product at the time.

PatrickS · 22-02-2009, 02:19

Just to close out this thread...

I have reached a settlement with the parties involved. They have compensated me for approx. 60% of my total losses. I do not consider the settlement completely fair, but have decided it is not worth pursuing the matter further.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice.

Jolly Roger · 22-02-2009, 05:21

OK, it’s good to hear you have won something out of your persistence. But everyone here who got involved is none the wiser, so why don't you now publish the firm’s names, so we can all be wary of them? That should give you the other 40% worth of satisfaction, and if everything you said is true, there is no fear of reprisals.

PatrickS · 22-02-2009, 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger

OK, it’s good to hear you have won something out of your persistence. But everyone here who got involved is none the wiser, so why don't you now publish the firm’s names, so we can all be wary of them? That should give you the other 40% worth of satisfaction, and if everything you said is true, there is no fear of reprisals.

Everything I reported was completely factual and I have no concerns about reprisals, but I've decided to move one, and not name names.

Joli · 22-02-2009, 18:19

The color wasn't set and the material found its way to market. No one wins.

PatrickS · 22-02-2009, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joli

The color wasn't set and the material found its way to market. No one wins.

The fabric was acrylic, so the color is added as part of the chemical composition of the thread. I don't believe the problem was the fabric itself, but the absence of any barrier layer between the fabric and sail. Given the amount of this particular brand of fabric on the market, and what I've found during the course of this experience, these sorts of problems seem very rare, so most folks probably have no cause to worry.

In any case, I intend to move on, and won't be revisiting this thread.

Cheers,

Patrick