New Boat -- Built In vs Add On

[tmccaffery]

I am contemplating ordering a new boat which means that I will have the ability to have specific components installed on the boat during construction, like radar, AIS, generator, watermaker & etc. Without debating the need utility for the components, I find that that some of the components offered by the manufacturer seem at first to be over priced versus components that can be purchased elsewhere and installed after delivery.


A specific case is that the manufacturer offers to install a Spectra Newport 17gph watermaker for $23K, which lists for roughly $11K. So, the installation cost appears to be roughly twice the cost of the unit. Since the manufacturer is foreign (non-USA) some of the cost may involve shipping, customs & etc. of equipment manufactured / assembled in the US to the country where the boat is being built. However, this would not account for the total difference in installed cost. Further, it would seem that installing during construction would make the process simpler and therefore less expensive.



So, is having the manufacturer install things like watermakers, generators & etc. during construction worth the cost, or is adding on after delivery with equipment sourced and installed locally the way to go?

[Kenomac]

The installation of a Spectra Newport watermaker is actually quite easy to do, certainly not something I’d pay someone $10,000 to do over two days time.

We have a new Spectra Newport 1000 MKII and a 380c, nothing tricky about installing either unit. We’re also installing a brand new Onan 13.5kw generator ourselves this weekend. Our Vesper Watchmate AIS system took less than an hour to install.

How much is your time worth?

[valhalla360]

Go talk to some independent installation companies to get comparable installation prices.

I might pay a little more because if the manufacturer installs it, there is only one party involved if something is wrong. If you add it 2nd hand, expect the manufacturer and installer to point at each other if at all possible.

But for a $10k installation cost, I can pay a guy to come out several times to sort out any issues that arise.

[rourkeh]

Boat manufacturers highest profit margin comes from options and upgrades from the standard configuration. Most production boats have a manufacturer to dealer profit of 20%-25%, profit from options start at 30% and go up from there A customer who ticks all the option boxes when ordering adds a huge amount of gross profit for the dealer. Some things are easier to install during the build process and are worth paying extra to avoid the hassle, but things like a water maker or electronics can be done way cheaper during commissioning after delivery.

[billknny]

Every boat question has the same answer, "It depends."

Does your manufacturer offer decent warranty service through an agent near you? That can be worth a fair amount on complex systems. You just point at the misbehaving part and say, "Fix that."

If the manufacturer can not/will not offer a trustworthy "make it right" warranty, then a local installer is a better choice.

[alansmith]

Just throwing it out there....but if you buy a French cat and they install an Aussie refridge...are there tariffs involved?

I agree...life would be so much simpler if we just ticked the boxes of what 'add ons' we want and just paid hourly rates for the accessories.

I can also imagine that the big platform guys need clients with money to burn mentality. I don't mean that in a mean way. But guys who buy million dollar plus platforms aren't as 'cringe-e' about price points as a guy like me. Hell, I almost lost a trimaran in San Carlos Mexico over 5K because my sweetheart wouldn't budge on the price.

Without the excessive markups I would hazard to say that they would be marginal companies in a short period of time.

Here is what i would do:

1. every add on you are in need of ...get in contact with the company who makes it.
Get pics, wiring diagrams, dimensional requirements for products, power draws.

2. If you are buying a Lagoon...get on the Lagoon forums and here and ask who has
done this install of a X water system....or refridge by X. Ask them for help in
understanding the problems they encountered...or just in general, how they went
about it.

3. I assume you will travel to the manufacturer. Once you have all your facts about
the equipment dimensions, costs, power, and placement i would think you could sit
down with the manager of the floor and say something like....I need a conduit
placed behind the cabinets from point A to point B to facilitate a wire run in the
future. Or...I need a vertical board glassed into the stringers at this location to
facilitate the installation of the osmosis system.

Of course, the floor manager will politely state that they can do it...but cost you 2k dollars. Who knows what they will say. That is when you need to remind them politely that you are buying a million dollar plus boat... Play Peter against Paul. "you know, honey, those Outremer boats are looking better all of sudden." Even be willing to say that their boat just ain't happening and walk away. I bet you get stopped before you hit the exit door...or a call by the next morning.

The art of negotiation requires you to pretend that you don't give a s$it about the boat. It is just money and you won't be screwed over by anyone. They have a million dollar boat so they have to play...at least a little nice...to get your bucks. You might be dying to get this boat. Never let them see that. It is just business. If they see the weakness they will be tougher to defeat.

Maybe they will say it will cost 800 dollars extra. Figure how many man hours are involved and attack accordingly.

The next page is where to install and by whom. If you are a hands on guy do it yourself. If you are afraid of buss bars, crimping, wire guage, etc...then get one of our providers on CF to do the install. We have some very qualified and excellent reputation members who do it for a living and are stand up fellas.

There is zero chance anyone has of asking 20K for a 10K item from me. Well, in the interest of self disclosure, I would never be in the position to buy a large platform like that.

[tmccaffery]

Thanks to all for your input, very interesting and tends to reinforce my initial perceptions on cost -- very similar to the commercial world I am more familiar with. That is, low ball the price on the basic vessel and make the profit in the add ons & change orders. The only apparent advantage to paying the high cost for factory installed equipment would appear to be that they are "included" in the purchase price and you can then finance the cost of the add ons, while you may not be able to include post-delivery add ons in your primary boat loan.

[2big2small]

The benefit of installing as much as you can yourself can’t be overstated. You will have a much easier time troubleshooting and repairing afterwards if you had to plan and execute eveything yourself vs delegating to a third party or the factory.

Of course this is very time intensive and requires some skill—not that much though in general. If you don’t have the time, then go with a local third party rather than the far off factory, both for the lower price and the proximity. My 2¢.

[Paramotorgreg]

Once again, it depends.......

Getting big things in to a boat post-construction can make for very messy installs,.... sometimes the units that are being installed are large and heavy (eg. generator; watermaker; airconditioning; washing machine) and installing them at the stage of the initial build can ensure that the structural elements and stability of the boat don't get compromised - in addition cabling and piping can follow the optimum routes and be clearly labelled.

Having said that, one would hope that because of the relative simplicity of install at construction it should in theory be cheaper...... and sometimes if units are installed at initial build without care then access and removal at a later stage (if they become faulty) can prove problematic.

If your manufacturer is trying to charge you significantly more than the book price for the item, then I would approach them with the evidence of the list price and ask why it is so expensive when purchased through them. They may be prepared to give you a lower price if they fear that they might be about to lose the sale.

[indimini]

When we ordered our boat from the factory (Seawind catamaran), my key objective was to have any items which were structural in nature done at the factory. Examples include ducting for air conditioning, any additional thru-hulls needed, etc. That makes installation after the fact easier and made my wife happier as I wasn't putting too many new holes in the boat. It also allows you to pick the equipment vendors you prefer whether for price, features, access to parts, etc. Reducing # of factory options also helps when it comes time for things like import duty.