New Insurance changes recieved today...yikes

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Chotu

What about going the litigation route instead of the insurance route?

If someone crushes my boat, I file suit for damages?

Insurance has seemed less than worthwhile to me overall. In any and every case. Every type of insurance. I'm a pretty careful guy. I'm over half way through life at this point. I think I've saved more money paying for everything out of pocket than I would have if I had insurance.

And my boat got trashed by a hurricane. Broke loose and slammed against a seawall with several others, a few of which sank. I'm fixing the damage for less than I think insurance premiums with deductibles would have cost.

The concept of a "judgement proof" defendant is pretty important to understand if you go that route. If the person who crushes your boat also damages their crappy boat which holds the majority of their wealth, with the rest in retirement accounts that are untouchable by lawsuit, then you can sue them all day and win. You'll win their damaged crappy boat and a couple bucks, won't even cover your costs let alone the mental energy you put into something like that. Most people in the world are effectively judgement proof in this respect.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

The concept of a "judgement proof" defendant is pretty important to understand if you go that route. If the person who crushes your boat also damages their crappy boat which holds the majority of their wealth, with the rest in retirement accounts that are untouchable by lawsuit, then you can sue them all day and win. You'll win their damaged crappy boat and a couple bucks, won't even cover your costs let alone the mental energy you put into something like that. Most people in the world are effectively judgement proof in this respect.

Good point.

I should probably add "uninsured boaters" coverage to the self insurance plan if available on its own.

[capt.rob]

I'm paying approx $75.00 a year for basic liability 100/300 which is what most marinas here in Texas require to rent a slip through state farm for a 1972 formosa 41

[Mike OReilly]

Insurance is simply a way to mitigate risk. Whether it is worth it to spend the money comes down to a risk assessment, and a cost-benefit analysis. Insurance can definitely be worth the cost if these two balance out. But as costs go up, the balance begins to tip towards no insurance.

I conducted an insurance survey using both CF and SN members a couple of years ago. At the time about 15% of respondents said they had liability-only coverage. Then last year another poll ran here (or was it on SN??) which asked similar questions. This more current poll showed the liability-only numbers had gone way up -- something like 30% of respondents*.

Neither poll are scientifically accurate, but I do think it suggests a shift towards more people going liability-only. And I bet that is due to rising costs, added limitations, and reduced coverages.

*I can't find this poll thread. Maybe someone else can?

[sailingchiro]

two years ago, my insurance went from $953 to $3200/year. Coverage the same. It has yet to decrease from the hurricane rates. I am waiting. As the salesperson stated, "The rates will shoot up and slowly come back down." Seems like the OP rates are lagging behind the hurricane damage.

[Captain Anthony]

Chotu, have you ever been involved in litigation? In litigation, the ONLY winner is the Attorney's.

[boatpoker]

it used to be that only Hurricanes were "named" but now tropical storms are also named. Whats next ..... named rain showers ?

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by Navicula

just recieved an email about some changes to insurance.....

for southern coverage policys any damage directly or indirectly is excluded form coverage on our policy by any named storm going forward..

Lightning strike deductable has increased to 10 percent of your hull or machinery limit or 10 thousand dollars...

please note: we have never had a claim

I have BoatUS/Geico, no mention of any change in their coverage's. Depends on the carrier.

[Nepidae]

It would have helped if you had included your carriers name with the post.

Whether you have had a claim or not doesn't matter, insurance is a game of probabilities & percentages. The possibility of you incurring damage below a certain Latitude is suspected, so some insurance companies hedge their exposure against that damage.

A number of companies have gotten out of marine insurance, for now, they will be back with smiles, handshakes and intentionally low rates to get you back.

Try BoatUS. They have no Latitude restrictions for named storms and as far as I know haven't changed the % for lightning strike or other areas like hull depreciation.

EVERYONE looks for the cheapest insurance, but no one mentions how much negotiation & trouble they have getting their money when the SHTF. I've never heard of that with BoatUS.

I'm sure we'll get a number of counters to that, which will be interesting, but from my experience I have gotten good pricing and service when I called. I have several riders on our policy in respect to hull damage and other items.

IT'S incumbent on us as purchasers of insurance to make sure we know what we are buying when we buy it.

Also, BoatUS is GEICO insurance, BUT, not all agents of GEICO offer what BoatUS does.

Another point which should be made here, get what you want written down as to coverage and limits, Lightning Strike & Hull Depreciation are 2 big areas. Then when you go shopping you can get a cogent estimate from those you talk to and be able to compare apples to apples. A general quote from 1 and a general quote from another will not really provide an adequate picture of your insurance needs or costs.

Good luck.

[RickG]

We were happy with Markel through Jack Martin for the US. In the Caribbean we have Concept through Hugo Hanaham and considered Spectra through Offshore Risk. Spectra was cheaper and accepted a three year old survey, but it is Nevis based, Russian owned, backed by AIG, and does not apply in US waters. We went with Concept due to our concern with the ownership of Spectra.

Concept is 3.2% of hull value, 7% deductible, 14% deductible for named storm, and requires an out of water insurance survey. We have to be out of the hurricane box this year and the hurricane plan must be either run or be in a marina; we'll be in Grenada. In the hurricane box last year we paid 4.5% of hull value.

Before Irmaria we paid 2% of hull value and had a total constructive loss of our former boat.

We'll keep insurance for a couple more years, then go to liability only.

Cheers, RickG

[Painless]

The majority of homeowners insurance claims (60%) are for water damage from broken or leaking water pipes.
No coverage if the water comes from outside the home like a flood, etc.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Navicula

Pacfic marine

That is an agency, not an underwriter. Do you know who the actual underiter of the policy is? You should always know that, and what their rating with one of the major rating companies (AM Best, S&P, Fitch) is. Unfortunately, there are not many insurance options for Canadian registered boats cruising international waters. This is due to the Canadian government's protectionist laws and licensing requirements, which are too burdensome for most underwriters to comply with. I do have one underwriter who will quote, if you want to send me a PM.

Yes, we are in what is known as a "tightening insurance market". As companies pull out of the caribbean market due to the large number of claims in recent years (Pantaenius USA, for example) the remaining companies respond with more restrictive underwriting rules. If the business that was out there was not profitable enough for a company like Pantaenius, then just picking up those clients without increasing deductibles or rates is a recipe for the same unfortunate outcome. I know people like to bash insurance companies, but if they are not profitable, then they can't stay in business and pay out claims. Given time, the pendulum will swing back the other way, as other underwriters will enter the market, and that competiton will drive rates back down. I know that doesn't help you at all this year, but that's a cycle that's been repeated over and over many times in this industry.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by JBsurfin

I have BoatUS/Geico, no mention of any change in their coverage's. Depends on the carrier.

GEICO has made a big change to thier underiting guidelines this year, going into effect March 15, 2020.
This only affects boats moored or travellling to the Caribbean:
GMIC is no longer approving:
1. Full time moorings in the Caribbean during the hurricane season
2. Any trips to the Caribbean that are longer than 4 months in duration

Current GMIC cusotmers who have already received their renewal will not be affected for this policy term, but will be affected at their next renewal.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Good point.

I should probably add "uninsured boaters" coverage to the self insurance plan if available on its own.

Uninsured Boaters coverage is one of the most commonly misunderstood marine insurance terms:

• Uninsured Boaters (UB) is NOT the same as Uninsured Motorists like you have on your car
• UB does NOT pay for damage to your boat
• UB only pays for medical claims (injuries) to people onboard your boat if you are hit by an uninsured boater

If you want to cover your Hull against damage by an uninsured boat, then you must purchase hull insurance on your boat. If an uninsured boater hits you, then your hull coverage pays, although you will end up paying your deductible.
If the other boat that hits you has third party liability coverage, that is always the best option to pursue, since the deductible is usually very minimal or often even $0.

[TabbyCat]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My speculation was that while the profit margin can be the same, the cost to administer a bunch of smaller-value policies vs fewer larger ones would itself eat into profits. ...

So here's a question: is it the underwriters, or is it the brokers, who make getting liability-only policies more difficult?

Your speculation is on target: It is less cost effective to sell (10) $200 policies than (1) $2,000 policy. Each policy has to be carefully underwritten before coverage is placed. It takes as much labor on the part of the underwriters and agents to write a $200 policy as it does to write a $2,000 policy. And while most liability polices don't have claims, when they do they have one, it is usually huge. Think about it - how many $200 policies would a company have to sell to pay for just one sinking boat with fuel spill and salvage costs, a $500,000 claim?