New to Sailing and Struggling with Plan

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by bigjer40

[1] I would like to be the one sailing the boat on the sea trial, but I need to learn to sail first. ... [2] I only want to buy one boat. ... [3] We would be comfortable spending 50-100K and figure we have the next ten years to customize a 38-40‘ boat.

1. If you don't know how to sail yet you aren't qualified to select a boat. Get some experience before you buy anything bigger than a sailing dinghy.

2. Once you know something about boats you might be able to buy just one, but hardly anyone who sticks with sailing for any length of time finds their first boat is suitable for their needs several years later.

3. Your plan would have you paying a new price for a ten-year-old boat by the time you depart. Better to put that money in something that will appreciate in value until you are ready to leave. Then you'll be able to buy the exact same boat (if you still like it) for much less money.

Don't buy a sailboat at all unless you really enjoy sailing. You won't know that until you've done it for a while. There are far better ways to escape from the drudgery of conventional life and seek adventure. A sailboat may seem like the ideal way to "get away from it all" but if you find actually sailing on the ocean makes you miserable you'll wish you had bought a plane ticket instead.

Fabbian

[Knucklehead]

Boatman61, you be kewl. karl

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

I never sailed, never owned a boat, yet I bought and sailed a 2000 Beneteau 461 2/2 immediately from Annapolis into the Caribbean. ... My next boat will be either a Lagoon or FP, not because of size but because of draft. 6 ft vs 3.5 ft is a huge difference in the Bahamas.

How long did you have your Beneteau before you decided a different boat would suit you better?

Fabbian

[Knucklehead]

Fabbian,
You got me there.
After bouncing on the bottom in Chub Caye, scrapping the keel in Normans Caye, damn long dinghy ride from Pig Beach to Staniel Caye and going sideways in the Sea Land Park in the Exumas (darn narrow channel with 15k cross wind), the light bulb came on. I will admit to being a sometimes slow learner.
I guess a year of having restricted access to some really great places, I began to look at cats. I am currently looking at several Lagoon 41/420 & FP Lavezzi or Belize. I have heard that the Leopards are also great boats, but, that then opens the door to my getting the dreaded "too damn many to evaluate" syndrome.
karl

[boatman61]

I'm headed to France 2moro with someone who's never owned a boat or sailed before... but he has the dream and wants to do it...
So I've been his guide/advisor through the selection process which has been tough as he see's 7-8 metres in 'House' scale not boat scale...
I could have taken him down the small boat route but he would have crashed and burned... he's not the type for that kind of hardship... though he likes to think he is...
So I've got him to go for a very nice tidy 29ftr with a long keel and good stowage/fuel/water/accomodation/gear... its a 'Low Budget Dream...'
I will be showing/teaching him the basics on the delivery sail down to Portugal.... the upside is if the weather (which looks a bit blowy from the SW.. on the nose) freaks him out and scares him off 'The Dream' he can sell it for a profit here..
Most clouds have a silver lining..... somewhere..

[fgd3]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

Fabbian,
You got me there.
After bouncing on the bottom in Chub Caye, scrapping the keel in Normans Caye, damn long dinghy ride from Pig Beach to Staniel Caye and going sideways in the Sea Land Park in the Exumas (darn narrow channel with 15k cross wind), the light bulb came on. I will admit to being a sometimes slow learner.
I guess a year of having restricted access to some really great places, I began to look at cats. I am currently looking at several Lagoon 41/420 & FP Lavezzi or Belize. I have heard that the Leopards are also great boats, but, that then opens the door to my getting the dreaded "too damn many to evaluate" syndrome.
karl

A Gemini is probably a little small for you, but there's a big difference between 18 inches of draft and three feet. I think you'll like the feel of a catamaran better than a monohull. I know I do. Good luck with your search.

Fabbian

[Knucklehead]

BTW - both, quotes from Dean and Oscar are great

Boatman61,
From my reading of your messages, you exemplify the the traditions of sailors the world over. Showing and coaching, but, allowing the experience to grow, wow. You are doing it right and those of us (me) sure appreciate those like you who smile with salt water running down the nose chin and up the sleeves.
A quick story. while sailing from Annapolis to Charleston, on the outside, the boat was heeled over and flying in a force 5 or so (the older I get the higher the number). I heard the strangest sound on the starboard side but could not figure it out. I happened to look down into the water just as a dolphin/porpoise was breathing. talk about staring at each other another, wow. then there was the single blue bird trying to land in the stays, wanted to go into irons so bad.
Anyway, gotta go, later
karl

[boatman61]

Whoa.... I'm not that nice....
and I'm not that good either.. lots here could likely sail rings round me... but I am a seaman who manages to get from A to B... with the occasional diversion to C...

[bigjer40]

Thanks to all for the input. It is funny that Cat's were brought up because it was a Cat evening cruise in Cabo that started all of this! Unfortunately, they aren't very practical here on the Columbia as I imagine I would have to pay double slip fee's and not sure about service or haul out's (uneducated guess based solely on the fact that I do not see any Cat's in the local marinas). I am also feeling more comfortable with the production boats after reading this very entertaining thread http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ats-34218.html It appears that the right production boat with the trade winds would work fine. I should have lots of sailing in before then. We pland to sail a lot from Columbia up to San Juans til we retire. I do see the benefit of buying a very basic boat with out all the bells and whistles to learn on. If a guy was to buy a 5-10K boat, would you still spend the money on a full survey and diesel inspection? Or would you just take out for a good test sail? Seems odd to spend a thousand on an inspection on a 5k boat. Or am I shooting to low for the first boat? Seems like a lot of sweet deals out there. I am still unsure at this point, but you guys are surely narrowing it down for me! Karl, I admire your story and it sounds a lot like me! That is how I learn, jumping right in! My first dirtbike was a CR500 You ever have any thoughts at sea about wishing you were on another boat (not a Bene)? The production boat fits our needs 9/10 except returning from mexico via hawaii and across the pacific.

[bigjer40]

Originally Posted by fgd3

1. If you don't know how to sail yet you aren't qualified to select a boat. Get some experience before you buy anything bigger than a sailing dinghy.

2. Once you know something about boats you might be able to buy just one, but hardly anyone who sticks with sailing for any length of time finds their first boat is suitable for their needs several years later.

3. Your plan would have you paying a new price for a ten-year-old boat by the time you depart. Better to put that money in something that will appreciate in value until you are ready to leave. Then you'll be able to buy the exact same boat (if you still like it) for much less money.

Don't buy a sailboat at all unless you really enjoy sailing. You won't know that until you've done it for a while. There are far better ways to escape from the drudgery of conventional life and seek adventure. A sailboat may seem like the ideal way to "get away from it all" but if you find actually sailing on the ocean makes you miserable you'll wish you had bought a plane ticket instead.

Fabbian

Thanks Fabbian for the great advice. I am not sure you saw my post indicating we would be a part of a local yacht club here and sailing all the boats for the next year. Not to mention getting on as many boats as possible. My better half is also joining a local womens sailing club which will give her access to a wide variety of boats. After all, if she is comfotable with a particulat model, that will have a lot of pull when we write the checkI realize a year is nothing, but I plan to get some basic ASA cert and a columbia river bar crossing with experinced crew under my belt in that time. Who knows, maybe someone from CF wants to take me

[Knucklehead]

bigjer40,
Honestly, my selection of Beneteau was a result of a gut feeling. You know, like that Viper or Porsche coming up behind you on the interstate, the sexy look of the Boeing 757, one inch thick Porterhouse Steak, finally getting over the stress of a project, etc....
The Beneteau felt right for me and as a bonus, it had a fischer panda generator and watermaker on board. There were a lot of other nice things alowing me to live as a "liveaboard". I did look at Hunters, Bavarians and Jeanneau boats. But none grabbed me like the 461 Beneteau.
At the time I bought it, I had not really considered the depth of the Bahama chain. My fault, though, I woke up with a smile every day, rain or shine.
I gave water to those that didn't have the ability to make it, I dove and made sure others near me had their anchors secured, learned a bunch of stuff about the chartplotter, etc...... The Beneteau did it all and I would have crossed any ocean with it. I also would recommend, should you have an inboard engine, get a boat with a Yanmar. Easy to repair with parts available EVERYWHERE.
Enjoy yourself, go for the life you want. I truly believe that as long as you are doing what you want, life is good. BTW - short cuts suck.
Also, when in doubt don't go out. Amen to that
Karl
PS I found a Lagoon 42 that seems to be staring at me, wow, and the gut is yelling at me to do it.

[bigjer40]

Thanks Karl for your experience. The Bene jumped out at us to! A 40' was a great buy, but I don't fit in the enclosed shower. We went on a 37' that didn't have enclosed shower and would be perfect. We really like the hunters (easy access to engine and fuel filters and thru hull and valve lay out), but when I walk around down below I feel like I am going to snap the wood in half. It was on most of the newer Hunters I was on. Anyone else experience this on the Hunters or know of a easy fix???

[Seahunter]

Heh, Heh, heh, a noobee. Well, you might be close to being clear of dirt debt, but getting yourself a boat isn't going to get you dept free, just boat poor. If you plan on staying on the river proper get yourself an older Hunter, or something of like in the 25 - 30' range 30K max, but remember they're really not a PNW'r open water boat. Keep the Hunter a few years then trade it in on something bigger and heavier once you realize what your really looking for. By the way if your wanting to be free of the rain, you have to head south, not north.

[bigjer40]

Thanks SeaHunter! We wish we could go south but we cant be away from work long enough to hit sun and return via Hawaii which seems to be the best route. Not until we retire anyway. Trips to Puget Sound will be more realistic. Great advice on Hunter. You feel the same about the Bene (same price point)? Im sure as long as it is good survey and not some crazy one of a kind that would meet out needs I would be good to go???? Stil, after my other half was on the new ones, its hard to look at anything else.

[Seahunter]

Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on a new boat. Boats aren't like cars with a major warranty nor all the options. One needs to know what they need before they can get what they want. For instance, if your life partner likes to use the hair dryer in the mornings after a long hot shower; you'll need bigger water tanks and at minimum an inverter or even a genset. These aren't on every boat. If you're going to get serious about cruising; a water maker, a genset, 150+ amp alternator, cruising battery bank, bigger rigging, davits, dinghy, outboard, communication equipment, navigation equipment and software then above all, up to date safety equipment. None of these things come with a new boat, unless you start adding them up front (However, they do come with their own set of fine plastic dining ware).
If you're talking about trip to the Puget Sound, I wouldn't choose either the Beneteau or the Hunter. Unlike some enamored by the scent of plastic and resin, I personally don't like how they're built. Blame it on my years as a commercial fisherman, but I like something substantial under my feet. I have nothing against fiberglass, just its use in cloned cookie cutter production boats with substandard, unbonded thru-hulls. I've spent enough time on these boats in gale force winds to know their weaknesses and while they look pretty all tied up together on the dock unless one spends dramatic amouts of cash upgrading the rigging (their biggest shortcoming) I think you can spend your money on a boat with better equipment more suitable for the task at hand rather than a glorified weekender.