New to sailing - some questions

[Letterkenny]

Hello all - been around boats my whole life but just getting into sailing now so had some questions I was hoping the knowledgeable folk here could assist with. Looking to join as a partial user of a Beneteau 31 (2017) or 35.1 (2018).

- Each of these do not have alternators as I was told but I see the switches for the AC outlets on the electrical panel. Do these just work when connected to shore power? Same question with the water heater (as it is in the same vertical section of the panel). See below for a photo of the panel (one that’s similar that I found online).
- Will running the engines still be able to top off the batteries? Not sure given it is in the same section on the main panel and if the battery charger switch would need to be on or if this is just for use when connected to show power.
- While I wish I could store something on the boat full time, looking for a tender I could use on occasion that I would bring with me on trips when needed. As it wouldn’t be used a ton, any recommendations for something cost effective? Was originally thinking a West Marine roll up and a Newport 55lb trolling motor. Would love to have a little gas engine or, if the budget permitted, a torqeedo, but gas is a bit more of a hassle to travel with in a SUV and I also don’t believe these boats have outboard brackets.

I am sure there will be more but I appreciate the help!

[SalingSue]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

Hello all - been around boats my whole life but just getting into sailing now so had some questions I was hoping the knowledgeable folk here could assist with. Looking to join as a partial user of a Beneteau 31 (2017) or 35.1 (2018).

- Each of these do not have alternators as I was told but I see the switches for the AC outlets on the electrical panel. Do these just work when connected to shore power? Same question with the water heater (as it is in the same vertical section of the panel). See below for a photo of the panel (one that’s similar that I found online).
- Will running the engines still be able to top off the batteries? Not sure given it is in the same section on the main panel and if the battery charger switch would need to be on or if this is just for use when connected to show power.
- While I wish I could store something on the boat full time, looking for a tender I could use on occasion that I would bring with me on trips when needed. As it wouldn’t be used a ton, any recommendations for something cost effective? Was originally thinking a West Marine roll up and a Newport 55lb trolling motor. Would love to have a little gas engine or, if the budget permitted, a torqeedo, but gas is a bit more of a hassle to travel with in a SUV and I also don’t believe these boats have outboard brackets.

I am sure there will be more but I appreciate the help!

I would not buy a boat without a engine driven charging source.

Are these salvage boats or were they looted? Why don’t they have alternators?

Yes, normally the AC outlets go off shore power, and/or a inverter that’s runs off your battery.

If this boat doesn’t have a charging source on the engine, obviously the engine won’t be able to
charge the batteries, personally I wouldn’t view such a boat seaworthy.

If you want something cheap and small and not used for much other than easy going stuff, a kayak off Craig’s list is common equipment on many a boat.

The fast roller type inflatables arnt bad, you just have to have space for the rolled up boat and outboard

Water heater, you’d have to find out the model, some
run off the batteries, some run off engine made heat, some run off propane, etc.

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by SalingSue

I would not buy a boat without a engine driven charging source.

Are these salvage boats or were they looted? Why don’t they have alternators?

Yes, normally the AC outlets go off shore power, and/or a inverter that’s runs off your battery.

If this boat doesn’t have a charging source on the engine, obviously the engine won’t be able to
charge the batteries, personally I wouldn’t view such a boat seaworthy.

If you want something cheap and small and not used for much other than easy going stuff, a kayak off Craig’s list is common equipment on many a boat.

The fast roller type inflatables arnt bad, you just have to have space for the rolled up boat and outboard

Water heater, you’d have to find out the model, some
run off the batteries, some run off engine made heat, some run off propane, etc.

While I’d typically agree and could always retrofit an inverter on this, it’s through a Sailtime membership so it will mainly be used for short day trips and no equity in it. Program makes economic sense for me as my yearly slip fees for a similar sized boat would be more than what I can get into one of these for and the usage is about what I could use on a monthly basis anyways. Seems like an alternator is an option on these two newer boats. If you could at least charge the batteries off the engine then I could live without full AC power on longer trips (bring a one off converter to use). Just curious if it’s possible to charge the house batteries without an alternator and if this is usually standard equipment on these newer boats.

[sandy stone]

What makes you say these boats don't have alternators? I have never, ever heard of an inboard powered boat without one, obviously to charge the batteries when the engine is running. Or maybe you are thinking of an inverter?

[Sailmonkey]

What makes you think they don’t have alternators? That would be odd in the oddest sense.

Typically the engine will charge the batteries while running, and heat water with a heat exchanger.

The AC panel typically wont function when away from t he dock (outlets, battery charger, water heater)

An inverter would power the outlets, but I’d doubt there is one fitted to a shared boat. There would be too many calls in the morning about dead batteries.

[Letterkenny]

My bad guys. I was mixing up alternator and inverter. Used to always having both (and a generator) from the power world. Would you need to have the battery charger switch on while under engine to charge? One other thing, how long can the fridge typically run for off of battery power? I think it’s 240ah house batteries.

[Gudgeon]

Aloha Letter kenny
1. Each of these do not have alternators as I was told.
Are you sure it doesn't have and alternator? I would guess from your comments it doesn't have an inverter. I would ask again about the boats not having an alternator?

2. I see the switches for the AC outlets on the electrical panel. Do these just work when connected to shore power? Same question with the water heater (as it is in the same vertical section of the panel). See below for a photo of the panel (one that’s similar that I found online).
No photo attached With out an inverter (or Genset) you would not have AC power with out being connected to shore power. Depending on the boats arrangement the hot water heater may work off of AC power and engine cooling.


3. Will running the engines still be able to top off the batteries?
If there is an alternator to charge them.

4. Not sure given it is in the same section on the main panel and if the battery charger switch would need to be on or if this is just for use when connected to show power.
Since the switch is on the AC power panel it would only work when AC power is supplied via shore power or a genset.

5. I would look on Craigs list for a used dinghy and small 5HP motor. Transiting a 5 gallon can of gas for a short trip windows open in an SUV should be a big deal

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

My bad guys. I was mixing up alternator and inverter. Used to always having both (and a generator) from the power world. Would you need to have the battery charger switch on while under engine to charge? One other thing, how long can the fridge typically run for off of battery power? I think it’s 240ah house batteries.

The battery charger switch has nothing to do with the engine running. It’s to supply mains power (shore power) to a device that will charge the batteries. The alternator is a completely different device that will charge the batteries (without user input) when the engine is running.

Regarding the refrigerator... if there are no other loads, and a lot of generalizations are made, typically 1-2 days. I’d bank on running the engine for an hour or two twice a day to maintain the batteries if you’re going to be out for more than an overnighter.

[Dave22q]

If your generator is properly setup it will supply A/C to your board and can run all circuits. Mine has a switch-- shore,off,ship. Off cuts all A/C, ship lets you start using batterie and supplies power, shore means just that.

[SV__Grace]

While the cost might be lower, the hassle factor of moving onto and off the boat each time with dinghy, etc, is bigger. But low buy in/commitment to try it out. I predict you'll want to buy your own boat in a year or two.

To keep your buy in/commitment low, how about a kayak instead of a dinghy? We have a high quality inflatable tandem kayak that is half the cost of a roll up dinghy and much easier to transport and more fun to use. While we have a dinghy as well, I've seen lots of cruisers who use kayaks exclusively and some brave souls who just use an inflatable SUP.

You could be in the position of wanting to own a boat in a year or two and have committed/invested in a dinghy and engine, as well as other stuff for that situation that is less than you prefer to have.

Roll up dinghys don't tow well, tend to puncture easily, take a long time to inflate/deflate, are massive and heavy to carry around and store, and unless they have a rigid floor, are not comfortable over 5 knots or so.

I was on a friends boat who was towing his while coastal cruising on a calm day, but the wind kicked up to 30 knots and it flipped upside down on a 6' wave, then submarined on another wave, and the force ripped off part of his stern pulpit (funny, when leaving the dock I asked him if he was sure he wanted to tie it there) before the painter broke and he lost it until it was recovered the next day by the USCG and he was lucky that he was able to get it back. Lesson- don't tow a roll up dinghy!

[NorthCoastJoe]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

My bad guys. I was mixing up alternator and inverter. Used to always having both (and a generator) from the power world. Would you need to have the battery charger switch on while under engine to charge? One other thing, how long can the fridge typically run for off of battery power? I think it’s 240ah house batteries.

If you are only going out for a few days gallon milk jugs frozen in the fridge will keep the food cold, no need to drain your batteries.

[Letterkenny]

Originally Posted by SV__Grace

While the cost might be lower, the hassle factor of moving onto and off the boat each time with dinghy, etc, is bigger. But low buy in/commitment to try it out. I predict you'll want to buy your own boat in a year or two.

To keep your buy in/commitment low, how about a kayak instead of a dinghy? We have a high quality inflatable tandem kayak that is half the cost of a roll up dinghy and much easier to transport and more fun to use. While we have a dinghy as well, I've seen lots of cruisers who use kayaks exclusively and some brave souls who just use an inflatable SUP.

You could be in the position of wanting to own a boat in a year or two and have committed/invested in a dinghy and engine, as well as other stuff for that situation that is less than you prefer to have.

Roll up dinghys don't tow well, tend to puncture easily, take a long time to inflate/deflate, are massive and heavy to carry around and store, and unless they have a rigid floor, are not comfortable over 5 knots or so.

I was on a friends boat who was towing his while coastal cruising on a calm day, but the wind kicked up to 30 knots and it flipped upside down on a 6' wave, then submarined on another wave, and the force ripped off part of his stern pulpit (funny, when leaving the dock I asked him if he was sure he wanted to tie it there) before the painter broke and he lost it until it was recovered the next day by the USCG and he was lucky that he was able to get it back. Lesson- don't tow a roll up dinghy!

I’d honestly be happy to buy a boat now, however, the economics just don’t make sense at the moment given what we think we can use it for to the overall cost. My wife and I are younger and don’t have kids yet so we will likely plan on buying once that all settles. We live in Southern California. If we lived in Florida, this would probably be different. However, we will ultimate do a lot of day sailing and not need a tender.

I’ve thought about a Kayak and may just go this direction. I just liked the idea of having a motor as well. If budget permitted, I would try out the FRIB with a torqeedo outboard. Been checking Craigslist and just nothing great available.

[skipmac]

Maybe some clarification. As several noted, it would be strange beyond belief for a boat engine to not have an alternator and I think you said you meant inverter. So

Alternator. Any inboard boat engine will have one and it will work just like a car. When the engine runs the alternator is charging the battery. There are different setups that charge more or less but unless broken they will be charging the batteries any time the engine runs. You do not need to switch on a charger or any other device for this to work. Again, just like a car.

Inverter. Makes house electricity IE 110V 60 Hz AC power, from a battery. So you can plug in a house type appliance even if not connected to shore power. Works like a generator but no engine to run. BUT these can suck down a LOT of battery power.

Battery charger. Plug into shore power OR a generator, turn on the charger and it charges the batteries. Doesn't matter if an engine is running or not.

[Mrfish]

[QUOTE=Letterkenny;3302798]I’d honestly be happy to buy a boat now, however, the economics just don’t make sense at the moment given what we think we can use it for to the overall cost. My wife and I are younger and don’t have kids yet so we will likely plan on buying once that all settles. We live in Southern California.

You will not really need a tender in So Cal as Catalina has shore boat taxis and the other islands you probably wont get off the boat.

Since you live in Southern California, why don't also look at one of the other sailing Clubs and compare. This will give you an opportunity to try out different boats that they have in their fleets.

I am not familiar with all the sailing clubs in SoCal but Aventura in Dana Point, Marina Sailing in six different locations, Windward in Newport Beach are examples.

Welcome to the world of wind .

[Letterkenny]

[QUOTE=Mrfish;3302902]

Originally Posted by Letterkenny

I’d honestly be happy to buy a boat now, however, the economics just don’t make sense at the moment given what we think we can use it for to the overall cost. My wife and I are younger and don’t have kids yet so we will likely plan on buying once that all settles. We live in Southern California.

You will not really need a tender in So Cal as Catalina has shore boat taxis and the other islands you probably wont get off the boat.

Since you live in Southern California, why don't also look at one of the other sailing Clubs and compare. This will give you an opportunity to try out different boats that they have in their fleets.

I am not familiar with all the sailing clubs in SoCal but Aventura in Dana Point, Marina Sailing in six different locations, Windward in Newport Beach are examples.

Welcome to the world of wind .

I’ll take a look at them. I looked around at the local clubs first and did some day charters. This program seems most economical for my planned usage but will take a look at those as well.