Ocean-Going

[Alan Wheeler]

Hey Swagman, your Hanse aint all togehter what I would call a light boat. Certainly very Blue water capable. The Hanse is in the weight catagory of what I would consider well built. I think this type of boat is what the "heavies Brigade" are taliking off. There are a lot much lighter than yours and a lot flimsy'er.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Seadog
Deep Seadog



Halycon (27)
Albin Vega (27)
Nantucket Clipper 31 (but really a 27 footer )
Westerly Pentland / Renown / Berwick / Longbow (31)

[swagman]

Hi Alan,

I'm pretty sure length v weight the Hanses would fit into the same parameters of Beneteaus etc. They are for instance, only 60% of the equivilent length Hallberg Rassy / Hylas / Malo etc.

But I'm not responding the question simply because of what I've chosen - and I completely agree no one should go sailing on anything thats unsafe.

What I'm trying to say is:
1. Despite our personal views on some yachts designs and constructions - literally thousands of those yachts we are most critical of, go cruising without a hitch. Indeed, their pricing has allowed thousands to go sailing who might otherwise not have gone.
2. Heavy does not equate to safer. The slower the boat, the longer one spends on passage. Thereby multiplying the risks of heavy weather which in extreme circumstances can sink even the best built vessel.
3. Most forget that over the amount of time one spends on a boat cruising, the percentage actually spent way offshore on ocean passages is absolutely minor. So the upside of cramped accomodation / deep cockpits / longer keels - all deemed beneficial if one hits heavy weather - has to be judged in a balanced way against the downside one suffers for the greater part of time on board.
4. Factually big oceans does not mean big heavy weather. Statistically its the opposite. So selecting a vessel based on what sailing conditions you are most likely to meet makes good sense too.

And by the way, provided they are pretty - I love all yachts.

Cheers

[Alan Wheeler]

I suppose I have a view that is coloured by the fact that a typicla day sailing here in NZ is 20kts. A light day would be 15kts and average days 20-30kts. Now I guess that at 15-20kts, most lightweight boats are going to beat the pants of mine. But from 20 up, I doubt there will be a lot of difference in speed vs weight, when viewed as same lengths of course. So I don't always see the argument of going anywhere quicker to get out of the way of weather. However, I need to remember that down here, we have a stronger average wind pressure, so in your neck of the woods, a boat like mine would most likely be very frustrating to sail.

[swagman]

Hi Wheels,

Know the weather. Sailed out of Perth for 20 years and much the same there also.

I'm sure you'll enjoy sailing your boat anywhere, but an old pal who had a 70 foot Swedish 'air yacht' with a huge rig - left it all in place when he circumnavigated for the same reasons I've given above.


And when he got back he confirmed he spent most of his time struggling to sail due to light winds - so his decision was vindicated.

Horse for course really.

Regards
JOHN

[Efraim]

For the past 6 months or so the admiral and I have been seriously shopping for an ocean going live aboard. We quickly realized that in the early stages asking people's unqualified opinion is of limited value in picking the right boat. When asked why they recommend such and such a boat, we usually get answers like “I hear they're good boats” or “They're well built”, this may be from someone who has never seen the boat in question, or has no idea what constitutes a “well built” boat. If we are going to be spending well into the 6 figures, we need better answers than, can't make much of a business case based on hearsay can you?


Anyways, to get us going we have bought a couple of books that deal with yacht design, Ted Brewer's “Understanding Boat Design” easy to understand for a lay person like myself, and for the admiral, who's an engineer, we have Skene's Elements of Yacht Design. Both excellent books that will help you to separate the wheat for the chaff.


We now feel we have the basics for making a somewhat informed decisions on what characteristics our future boat will have.

[Benny]

Efraim Posted

We now feel we have the basics for making a somewhat informed decisions on what characteristics our future boat will have.

Also I think that input from the many experienced ocean sailing members of this site will be a valuable source for you. There are a few threads on ocean going design and boat types. Check them out or just ask the questions you have of this group - you will get mostly sound, reasoned and experienced answers.

[Pblais]

We quickly realized that in the early stages asking people's unqualified opinion is of limited value in picking the right boat.

When you start out you really don't have a sense of the depth that the discussion brings. In the end you really are asking not just what is a great boat but what is a great boat for me and my crew and all my stuff I have to bring that I also have not figured out yet. You also need to afford it and do the things you plan on doing. If you don't take in the whole scenario then you sure as anything won't have any fun. That is perhaps the least spoken requirement - fun.

You never escape the issues related to the captain, crew, destinations and experience. The boat won't sail itself and your own goals do matter a lot more than anything else. How you get to that point is the complicated part.

You may have dreams but you may not have the ability to transform them into a plan for execution. It might easily be said the boat is the least of your problems. I'm not sure I would take it quite that far but if you solved all the other issues then the boat would not be a very hard problem to figure out for your specific situation.

In the end you will never solve the "perfect boat" riddle. Cruisers Forum runs around that question on a continuous basis. many enjoy the process and the insight. You only require one boat suited for your own detailed purposes, the skill to handle it, and the ability to somehow enjoy it all above everything else. I would strongly argue the last requirement is most important.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Efraim

For the past 6 months or so the admiral and I have been seriously shopping for an ocean going live aboard. We quickly realized that in the early stages asking people's unqualified opinion is of limited value in picking the right boat. When asked why they recommend such and such a boat, we usually get answers like “I hear they're good boats” or “They're well built”, this may be from someone who has never seen the boat in question, or has no idea what constitutes a “well built” boat.

Interesting view point, their is never any substitute for learning yourself rather than relying on being spoonfed by others. Whether they be "Unqualified" and free or "Qualified" and cost $$$ all advice is just that and like in every other activity advice recieved needs to be assessed according to the source and the motivation of the advisor.

If we are going to be spending well into the 6 figures, we need better answers than, can't make much of a business case based on hearsay can you?

If someone is seeking to spend 6 figures on anything IMO it is always a good idea to know what you are buying.....but I appreciate that opinions do vary

Anyways, to get us going we have bought a couple of books that deal with yacht design, Ted Brewer's “Understanding Boat Design” easy to understand for a lay person like myself, and for the admiral, who's an engineer, we have Skene's Elements of Yacht Design. Both excellent books that will help you to separate the wheat for the chaff.

We now feel we have the basics for making a somewhat informed decisions on what characteristics our future boat will have.

Please do tell

[Boracay]

I found "The Elements of Boat Strength" by Dave Gerr invaluable.

He splits the calculations up into reasonably simple formulae, tables or graphs and these give the scantlings. Not hard.

I found it to be a worthwhile exercise and when I brought my boat I knew what I was getting. (A little light in construction but still stong enough)

[TBoneFan]

ok....here is a hull that is not far from that is up for sale. I know you really have to see it to give real advice but anyway:

69' Westerly Centura
Built to Loyds of London Specs.
26' with 8.5" beam
wt. 6150 lbs

what do you think?

[TBoneFan]

little old I know

[Weyalan]

Morgan Paul said it best; the person in the cockpit. Buying the most solid, dependable, well designed ocean-going vessel in the world will not compensate for a lack of experience. An experienced offshore sailor will get by with almost anything...

[Morgan Paul]

Hi Tbone
The Westerly Centaur 26 looks like a spacious boat for its size. It looks good for coastal sailing.

Paul

[Jentine]

The only thing that delineates which boats belong at sea and which don't has less to do with the boat and more to do with the skill and experience of the crew. A lesser boat with a good crew will be better prepared to set to sea and conversly, an inexperienced crew is more likely to get into avoidable trouble.